Author Topic: Hello and I have an electric water pump question  (Read 13519 times)

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Offline JackD

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2007, 10:30:55 AM »
Ack gets up earlier than most and that gets him thinking sooner with more predictable results.
This may come as a shock but even oil systems cam be fitted with a thermostat that will bypass the cooler.
Oh, and he is right in this one too. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2007, 12:36:02 PM »

Your car looks like it should be fun, going to make this year?

Rex

Rooms and dues paid....... ;)
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"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline Sumner

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 01:02:04 PM »
Sumner, when I try to post the pic larger it somehow defaults to the smaller size....
here is the pic as it should be but its not posting:

http://hayabusa.org/iB_html/uploads/post-12-39123-multi.jpg

I separated the pictures.  I'll be interested in how you do as I'll probably have a busa someday in my lakester.  My only comment would be make the spill plates a large as the rules permit.  It looks as if they are as high as permissible, but keep that height as far forward up to the axle center line as possible to get every benefit you can from them in regards to the "center of pressure".


Offline Sumner

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2007, 01:05:35 PM »
.........and the last one,


Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2007, 04:05:42 AM »
I pre heat my motors to warm and expand the blocks before I start them! Yeh cold water makes more horsepower bla bla bla! On a dyno. I tell ya a warm motor will love ya even more?and it will stay together. We use to make those cold water passes and pretty much hurt a motor every pass!!! At 30+lbs of boost it don?t take much to squeeze a head gasket out. Started pre heating the motors and haven?t had a problem since. Go to the drag races? watch those turbo boys slowly warming there motors up? they know the combustion temp wont warm the blocks up fast or evenly enough to keep a head gasket in it. Thermostats are for street motors ever had one stick shut? Just one more useless thing that can break and go bad.

Offline JackD

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2007, 04:41:58 AM »
If a thermostat fails shut is is caused by overheating that made the internal expansion system  lose it's ability to operate.
If the installer doesn't understand it's operation it might be installed backwards with a similar result.
The proper , unloaded warm up procedure with a thermostat includes watching the temp rise very carefully and when it starts to dip that tells you it is open at the specified temperature and you are now starting to preheat the rest of the system.
A proper thermostat system will keep the engine at the desired temperature with everything else just an Old Spanish Custom.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Speed Limit 1000

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2007, 05:17:18 AM »
 :roll: Jack, you are up today before Ack, good job.
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline JackD

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2007, 06:17:44 AM »
:roll: Jack, you are up today before Ack, good job.
As these kids get smarter and smarter, ya gotta get up earlier and earlier. LOL
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2007, 09:31:50 AM »
I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I can see logic in preheating water and I by no means suggest that what I am going to suggest is correct?.but?.

I can agree that the conventional logic of having your mechanical thermostat regulate the temp of the water is a good one and therefore preheating your water would not be the best thing to do. This logic has been tried and true since the inception of the automobile and why change it?

For whatever it is worth I can see how the use of an electric water pump WOULD justify pre heating the water. Preheated water would prevent the electric pump from running on a full restricted load by the thermostat. In my limited experience with electric pumps I find it is hard on a pump to block its flow 100%?.. I feel that over time that running an electric pump under full restriction will eventually cause premature failure where as a crank driven pump does not care.

Something that would be interesting to try by someone using an electric water pump would be to remove the thermostat (this would increase the flow capacity and cooling ability) and install a variable temp switch in the water jacket. The variable temp switch would regulate the operation of the water pump as appose to a thermostat regulating flow, the flow would be regulated electrically. Not only would the cooling system be more efficient, it would be easier on the electric water pump but you could also on the fly regulate the temp of the motor by turning a knob. This could also eliminate the hands on procedure of turning the pump on or off?.it would do in automatically and be one less thing to do.

Longevity of the water pump may be a minor reason to preheat the water?.and regulating the water temp electrically as apposed to a traditional thermostat may be a waste of time with no real practical benefits??but that is no reason that someone using an electric pump should not do this??just not me?..but let me know how it works for ya!
jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2007, 09:32:37 AM »
and thanks Sum for fixing the pics.

-JH
jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline JackD

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2007, 09:49:05 AM »
To much foo foo presents too many problems.
An electrical anything will be less reliable that a mechanical thermostat.
If you wish to not dead head any electrical pump system a very reliable thermostatic switch will keep it off until you need it.
If you don't trust that , the old toggle switch you already had can bypass even that.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2007, 01:11:35 PM »
the more trickery you design into it the more stuff to fail especially electrical stuff on the salt. as far as remembering to flip a toggle switch at one point of a pass....your better off doing your pre race prepwork before you jump into your car.
good luck
kent

Offline salt27

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2007, 01:26:43 PM »
I agree with Jack about too much "foo foo". However I think keeping the water circulating through the engine [closed loop] until it comes to temperature will keep hot spots to a minimum and warm the engine uniformly. When using a remote water pump this can be accomplished by using electric solenoid valves,opening and closing the bypass. Use either thermostatic or manual [toggle switch] control.                                                                                                                                                                                                 just a thought, Don

Offline JackD

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2007, 01:39:28 PM »
If the cooling fluid is working at all the Hot spots will be averaged during a proper warm up and harmless.
If the design for flow is bad under load that is just bad no matter how you circulate the juice.
If your ability to monitor water temperature is limited when you are underway than I have nothing to offer.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Hello and I have an electric water pump question
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2007, 05:32:03 PM »
Just a quick comment regarding running your electric water pump with the outlet closed, as these are centrifugal pumps when you close off the outlet the pump goes into stall and the actual power to run it drops!

Rex
Rex

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