Author Topic: Harley Servicar, what class  (Read 10202 times)

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Offline sockjohn

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Harley Servicar, what class
« on: March 15, 2007, 12:14:21 AM »
Just wondering, the BUB rules specifically state the rear wheel on a three wheel vehicle (motorcycle sidecar) must be in the track of the front wheel.

For Bonneville, could a Harley Servicar run in the side car class?  Two wheel drive motorcycle allowed?

Where is my rule book!?   :?


Offline hawkwind

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 01:29:43 AM »
I believe the SCTA does not allow these types of vehicles  :x bring it down under as the DLRA permits any 3 wheel configuration vehicle to participate in the M/C section  either as production (HD servicar) or as a special construction  :-D
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Gary
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Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007, 02:47:55 AM »
I believe the SCTA had a three wheeler class but dropped it some considerable time ago.   It would be interesting to see how the SCTA would classify it.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline JackD

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 04:51:28 AM »
The SCTA rule in part did read: "Class A may have 2 or 3 wheels".
It was intended that class A allow unlimited configuration within the bounds of engine classification, partial streamlining, and safety.
It allowed you to try all your ideas to go fast and if you were beat by a seemingly lesser bike, you needed to do your homework.
Sadly it is not that way and all the extra rules do nothing but put on artificial / inappropriate limits.
A Lakester should be the closest car equivalent and you can see the various configurations make it interesting with everybody's best effort and idea.
Class A bike rules could learn from them.
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dwarner

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 08:30:07 AM »
Same old argument - if it exists why must there be a SCTA/BNI class? Can I run my lakester at Indianapolis or this weekend at Atlanta with the NASCABS?

There is a class structure that services our sport and your vehicle should fit within this structure. There are other options other than a SCTA/BNI meet to run your vehicle. Try entering the USFRA 130/150 club, BUB motorcycle meets and the always popular FIA/FIM private meet.

DW

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 08:45:54 AM »
What happened to the old "3 entrys to create a new class" rule?  That's how the 3 wheelers did it in the 80s. 
And if the servicar gets a class, can I put a single wheel on the lakester, call the nose a fender and ......
Or is that a new thread....
Stainless
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Offline tomsmith

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 09:54:03 AM »
I'd like to see a Servicar entered.  I used to ride (or is it drive?) them.  Just don't try to go around a corner on one.   Luckily Bonneville is supposed to be in a more or less straight line.
139mph with no bike, but with speedo and helmet.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 10:59:52 AM »
Just wondering, the BUB rules specifically state the rear wheel on a three wheel vehicle (motorcycle sidecar) must be in the track of the front wheel.
You wrongly limit the three wheel vehicle to the  motorcycle sidecar. The bilaterally symmetrical (more or less) three-wheeler is classified as a cyclecar, and there is an FIM class for them. Damned if I can find the rules, though.

Offline Freud

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 11:21:36 AM »
Landracing.com must be the grandaddy of all "what if" questions.
FREUD
Since '63

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 11:28:23 AM »
With all the trouble I'm having navigating the FIM rules -- I find it hard to believe that I'm offering something from them, but here's a cut-and-paste from those pages:  (Whoops.  It's in .pdf form and I can't copy and paste, so I'll just type a bit...):

"Group B2:  Motorcycle with permanent sidecar:  Vehicles with three wheels, making two or three tracks on the ground in the direction of forward travel, with a permanently attached sidecar forming a complete integral unit.

Group B3:  Cycle-cars:  3-wheeled vehicles making three tracks on the ground forming a complete integral unit and having accommodation for a rider and a passenger.
A cycle-car is a motorcycle with 3 wheels differing from a Sidecar in that 2 of the wheels are mounted on the same geometric horizontal axis.  These may be on the front or rear of the vehicle and shall ensure stability of the vehicle.
Steering must be by handlebars with a minimum length of 500 mm or by a wheel with a minimum diameter of 300 mm.
The passenger can be by the side of the rider but not necessarily in the same frontal alignment.  He can also be placed behind the rider.  If bodywork does not enclose the wheels, wheels must be protected by mudguards."

That's all from the FIM "Appendices for World Records".  I've got the whole thing and could forward it if you'd like it.  You can get it from FIM, of course, and I think it's also available on the Bub's site.

Remember, I'm not the FIM representative by any stretch of the imagination.  I just happened to have seen this information and knew where to find it.
Jon E. Wennerberg
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bak189

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 12:08:41 PM »
Yep, That's right...................

Offline tortoise

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 02:17:04 PM »
"Group B2:  Motorcycle with permanent sidecar:  Vehicles with three wheels, making two or three tracks on the ground in the direction of forward travel, with a permanently attached sidecar forming a complete integral unit.

Group B3:  Cycle-cars:  3-wheeled vehicles making three tracks on the ground forming a complete integral unit and having accommodation for a rider and a passenger.
But . . .

Group B2 and B3 are within Category I, "motorcycles propelled by the action of one wheel in contact with the ground", so the Servicar is screwed.

Didn't the original Spirit of America run as a motorycle? That would be Category IV, Group Y as I read the rules. No such record is listed, though.

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 02:59:33 PM »
"Group B2:  Motorcycle with permanent sidecar:  Vehicles with three wheels, making two or three tracks on the ground in the direction of forward travel, with a permanently attached sidecar forming a complete integral unit.

Group B3:  Cycle-cars:  3-wheeled vehicles making three tracks on the ground forming a complete integral unit and having accommodation for a rider and a passenger.
But . . .

Group B2 and B3 are within Category I, "motorcycles propelled by the action of one wheel in contact with the ground", so the Servicar is screwed.

Didn't the original Spirit of America run as a motorycle? That would be Category IV, Group Y as I read the rules. No such record is listed, though.

The SoA Threewheeler got his  first, 1963 record as a cycle-car under the FIM rules, so as in 1976 Kitty O'Neil (Hamilton) with the SMI Motivator.
Pork Pie

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Offline sockjohn

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 04:57:14 PM »
I have a friend who is sealing the deal on a 1953 Servicar, so one day you may see this run.  It's barely running now, so doubtful for this year.

I suppose he could run it as P-VG or SC-VG, and as long as it doesn't set a record nobody will protest, right?  :wink:

The only advantage would be extra traction, but I doubt that would offset the extra air drag.  It's pretty draggy with two big wheels sticking out even compared to most side car setups.

Thanks for the help, especially with the FIM rules, not familiar with them.

Offline JackD

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Re: Harley Servicar, what class
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 06:00:13 PM »
Same old argument - if it exists why must there be a SCTA/BNI class?

There is a class structure that services our sport and your vehicle should fit within this structure.

DW
Actually there was a class for it in SCTA and the Wizards did not realize the significance if leaving well enough alone.
The one with the greatest potential was built by Don Vesco with 2 six cyl, turbo Kawis in it and Rick has it now.
Are you going to tell him it never ran or was covered in the rules ?
Ya gotta think through it. :wink:
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