OK whats the alternative

[hawkwind]

There has been a great deal of dissatisfaction with the current motorcycle leathers rule ,both here and over in your neck of the woods ,so my friends what is the best rule/s we can implement , as Im responsible for setting the M/C rules for the DLRA Im completly open to all suggestions ,and would like to hear all points of view
Gary

[JackD]

I did a whole thing on this just now and went to add a smile and the whole thing went poof.
I gotta get back in the mood and I will redo it.

[836dstr]

Jack,

BUMMER! When a smile turns to a frown.

It woud be nice if Computers had a little pop-up the said "are you really really sure you what to do that?" much like TIVO or DVRs.

Funny how it only happens on long posts or E-mails.

May the rest of your day be better!

Tom

[bbb]

if its possible.... use a bit of common sense, not uninformed paranoid grandure.

[MadDuck]

I would go with whatever JackD comes up with.  There are two advantages to this plan:

1) He is very likely to be right and you will thus look like a hero.

2) Any negative feedback and you can blame JackD and start a flame war.

Best of luck with the rule making, a thanless but critical task.  I think you can count on this board to steer you in all possible directions thus ruining the rest of your life.  I set up complex procedures in hospitals and follow a real simple plan.

Gather information.
Make a plan and implement
deal with the consequences.
Anyone makes a big stink, they take over.
If they try and give it back, just say no.

Whatever you do don't waste a lot of time considering all the options.  Treat it like artillery, fire a round down range and the adjust accordingly.

[JackD]

Well I think you guys got it and the list is very much along the same lines.
The key to the success will be the strength in numbers that can't be denied.
I have made a project out of certain people and things but not before giving them a long time to hang way out.
My daughter has set up the puter and most things are automatic.
It will often say to me "Don't touch me there." and as you guessed, sometimes I listen.

"Never try to corner anything that is tougher, meaner, smarter, and more experienced than you are.

[bbb]

scta does not allow the "hump" on the back of leathers in non streamline classes right?

[JackD]

if its possible.... use a bit of common sense, not uninformed paranoid grandeur.

"Uninformed paranoid grandeur" is not the theme I see among the biker entries and they are smarter than that.
The target seems to exhibit those leanings however.
While some entries jump right in with some pretty meaningful and legitimate complaints, not until a system can be devised to protect the rest of the field can the strength in numbers be effective.
Those numbers have to represent a larger segment of the field to be forceful.
The common sense of fair , simple to understand , and informed rules that are applied to everyone equally will will be most effective.
When I am in a better mood, I will outline the steps i think might work.
A common interest and public format will be the best but until I talk with Mr. Amo I am reluctant to put him in that position.
THX and WISH US LUCK
 

[JackD]

I sorta let the cat out of the box about helmet rules in answer to a challenge on the ECTA site.
I really didn't mean to do it exactly that way and a conversation with AMO may see that moved to a more appropriate forum that might influence all the LSR clubs.
Once again I seem to have the cat by the tail but unless he is fed, his future is not bright because I don't let go.

[panchop]

having just spent a grand on a SYED custom non perforated no stretch panel leathers which will be kept in a closet for anything but SCTA stuff. Guess I hope it just stays the same so I don't have to pay for more alterations.

[hawkwind]

come on blokes ,for so much hand wrenching and winging(whining) about how bad this rule is ,no one has put up an alternative or argument /data for an alternate solution , I came here because the DLRA web site board had lots of negative comments but zero rule change requests or viable alternate solutions ,seems as a rule maker your damned if you do and damned if you dont
Gary

[firemanjim]

Gary,you can certainly look back in the archives here as we beat this one to death to no avail. The "all Leather" rule was put in place in reaction to a gentleman getting burned a couple years back. After all was said and done it turned out he was burned not because his leathers had cloth inserts or too many vent holes,he was "steam burned" by his own sweat when hot oil got on his leathers. That can happen to any set of leathers. Are we saying that the leathers that Moto-GP racers wear to protect against crashes at 200+mph are not good enough but the old 2 piece set I have with the old padding are safer because I have no Kevlar and a " minimum" of ventilation holes because they meet the rule as it stands now.Absolutely idiotic.

[JackD]

Jim is a good example of what I consider an informed opinion.
The problem is the rulers don't listen and it is like "Winking at a girl in the dark."
With the secretive handling of any requested changes, the lack of user input, and the fear of retribution it becomes a real challenge.
I think the workarounds are going to prevail but as I said to someone "It won't be without some consternation followed by some constipation on the part of the target".
Study up because there is going to be a test that your future depends on.

[wolbrink471]

I think I am going to cry, the shadow of protecting people from themselves has fallen on yet another part of our lives!

The first couple years of racing I would add up the expenses and subtotal gear, bike, and travel seperately. The helmet, leathers, boots, bohn and gloves list always added up to be more money than what was spent on the bike!! Considering a long run like JackD's, I still think this is the BEST way to spend money and I don't need the rule book to convince me of it!

It is not that way anymore. I crash a lot less and think I 'need' a faster bike.

and now, hopefully, a productive word from our sponser..........

Helmets are not 'measured' by race organizers. The organizers recognize the work of snell/ansi and once they see the current sticker, they tech for condition only. The rider is responsible for chosing between a product from ARAI or from brand JKZ whatever. Both have the 'sticker' and the organizer's lawyers sit still. Which one do you want to pudding bowl down the track in

At one of the last AHRMA race I ran, the tech guy did three or four 'quick checks' on each set of leathers that he looked at. He seemed to look at the collar, cuffs, zippers, etc to determine the 'age' of the leathers and make sure everything was there. Then he would grab a handfull of leather on either side arm seam next to that big scuff on the forearm. Gently rolling/pulling the sleeve seam would scare the shit out of the riders with crudy/old leathers. Sometimes you would swear you could see light between the stitches.

I understand this is a 'qualitative' test, but more often than not the gapping seam motivated a new purchase.

Nevermind stretch panels or vent holes...the general condition seems to have much more to do with crash performance than anything else! The same tech guy swore that commercial leather cleaning chemicals would eat out the thread.

Mark

p.s. ask a leather manufacture what barbed wire does to your leathers while the cow is still wearing them!

[JackD]

You mean if a rider comes to the line dressed as a cow that is not good enough ? LOL
The cussin and discussion of leathers and body protection has just begun.
Let us see how we do.
"Older should be wiser, but it doesn't always work that way."