Rent a Ride ?????

[836dstr]

Another perspective; assuming the car in question is capable of setting a class record and someone wishes to pay for opportunity and is a qualified driver. Also assuming that the car owner wants to get the maximum performance out of the effort.

Years ago at the Drag Races a group of us would drive each others cars (Stock, Modifed Prod. & Gas class cars). Invariably the best ET's were not turned by the owners. We pushed each others cars a little harder than the owner would. The only thing we had to lose was maybe a engine and a friendship.

I wonder if "esqeddy" has a clause in his contract about sharing the cost of possible damage?

[JGMagoo]

I read the eBay listing completely and there IS a mention about if the car is wrecked or damaged. I can't remember the details but it actually sounded pretty generous to me.

[Bob Drury]

I would like to see that hold up in a court of law.  Lets see, The vehicle is probably from one state, the driver from another state, and you are RACING on government land.  Fat chance........and one more reason to not rent out your ride is the giant lawsuit some fleebag lawyer will file on behalf of your ex spouse...........

[maguromic]

I believe contract law is pretty clear when it comes to jurisdiction as long as the contract states what states law it follows and all parties have agreed to it.  In my opinion where the slippery slope is when a fleebag lawyer takes the advantage of a grieving family and files a frivolous lawsuit.

The cost of defense is very high.  All they would have to do is pay the filing fee and drag everybody into it.  Like I mentioned earlier anybody who is associated with the event could be held liable. Even if it is their fault or not.

Just imagine the tech inspectors that may have missed a point or the course prep crew for missing a rut. Are they negligent?  NO!!  But they still have to be defended.  I hope the SCTA has an insurance policy for the volunteers to  cover them.

Racing is full of these useless lawsuits. Look at the Good Year tire case in the 70?s brought on by a famous drivers family or the innuendo that drove Bill Simson out of the company he started.  Its tragic!!

It is impossible to stop rental rides, it just has to be policed better.  Maybe give the tech guys and the licensing guys a heads up on if it is a rental ride to scrutinize them better.

[esqeddy]

Oh now come on guys.  As litigious as our society is, its not all that. 

The age old principle of assumption of risk still applies.  As a practicing attorney well versed in the law, I still have no fear of a lawsuit.  At least not for renting my ride.  Can a lawsuit happen?  Sure.  Anyone can be sued for anything.  But that doesn't mean the lawsuit will prevail.  With the right legal safe guards and preparations, the effects are minimal.  Certainly the danger of a lawsuit is trivial compared to attempting 300 plus mph on the salt. 

Further, any ride renter would be signing exactly the same waivers as any other drivers.  How would the SCTA/BNI have any more exposure to them than anyother racer?  They simply wouldn't.  All this ranting about lawsuits on the SCTA/BNI is non-sense.

Knowing that such high speed dangers hasn't dissuaded you hearty risk takers, I find it surprising that the meer thought of a frivolous lawsuit would.

Chin up guys!  After all,  it is just as likely that no one will meet my reserve and this whole exercise will be a moot point.

[dwarner]

Thats the answer from a qualified person I was looking for.

DW

[maguromic]

I have no objections to you renting your car.  I think you have right to do so.  But what I do question is defending a frivolous lawsuit.  Not against you but as a co defendant.

As you know in a frivolous lawsuit until a judge or jury deem it frivolous you have to have representation by council. It is not the fear of the lawsuit but the defense that get me. My attorney charges $400 an hour, which ads up quick.

So the question is more to SCTA. One would have to think twice before volunteering for work, unless some one can tell me if there is a policy to indemnify workers against these types of actions.

Just because it hasn?t happened doesn?t mean it wont happen.

[russ jensen]

Oh now come on guys.    well versed in the law, I still have no fear of a lawsuit.   

  All this ranting about lawsuits on the SCTA/BNI is non-sense.

Knowing that such high speed dangers hasn't dissuaded you hearty risk takers, I find it surprising that the meer thought of a frivolous lawsuit would.

-----thats probably cuz U wouldn't have to poney up the big bucks to defend one- I was going to be one of of those law types- {did fair mnt of military lawring}-cept  GI bill didn't make it look atractive enough- glad I didn't - I can still look myself in the eye while shaving.---P.S.-- ask Jack bout his deposition experiance because of insurance he represented.

[desotoman]

I believe contract law is pretty clear when it comes to jurisdiction as long as the contract states what states law it follows and all parties have agreed to it.  In my opinion where the slippery slope is when a fleebag lawyer takes the advantage of a grieving family and files a frivolous lawsuit.

The cost of defense is very high.  All they would have to do is pay the filing fee and drag everybody into it.  Like I mentioned earlier anybody who is associated with the event could be held liable. Even if it is their fault or not.

Just imagine the tech inspectors that may have missed a point or the course prep crew for missing a rut. Are they negligent?  NO!!  But they still have to be defended.  I hope the SCTA has an insurance policy for the volunteers to  cover them.

Racing is full of these useless lawsuits. Look at the Good Year tire case in the 70’s brought on by a famous drivers family or the innuendo that drove Bill Simson out of the company he started.  Its tragic!!

It is impossible to stop rental rides, it just has to be policed better.  Maybe give the tech guys and the licensing guys a heads up on if it is a rental ride to scrutinize them better.

I could not agree with you more. We as an organization need to be proactive and take every precaution we can to limit Liability.

Tom G.

[JohnR]

I thought the BLM requires a percentage of all commecial activities on the salt? How much are they going to demand of this?

[Bob Drury]

I don't know what the outcome of this suit was, but when a World of Outlaws driver named Doug Wolfgang was severely burned in a crash, he sued every safety worker at the track for not being up to snuff.  He also had his fuel shutoff under the seat, and the nylon quick release on his steering wheel melted.  Its always somebodies fault in the eyes of lawyers.  I wonder how much each volunteer safety worker spent on lawyers?

[JackD]

Don't you hear it ?
It is the barking dog syndrome.
SCTA is appropriately insured and has stood the test of a lawsuit brought on behalf of a drivers estate before.
I was on the SCTA board and was the 2nd one served and the vehicle in question was never near me until the crash.
That was 1984 and it went as far as deposition and that is where we prevailed.
My deposition was 90 pages long and I played the estate attorney like a puppet.
Our attorney (the son of a famous track owner) that was paid for by the insurance company told me after that he knew we had them when the court reporter chuckled.
Their was a lot more detail in what could have been  serious blow if we were negligent but the Insurance company settled out of court for nuisance value that barely covered the expenses of the plaintiff.
The conditions of the BLM permit take the event as a whole to determine the appropriate user fee.
The individual financial agreements of the entrant  with the equipment suppliers and crew vary widely and are up to them to assemble and defend.
Most often it is less than a handshake and more of a mutual respect.
I kinda like that .

"Don't ever try to corner anything that is tougher, meaner, and more experienced than you are."

[desotoman]

I don't hear anything. 

Tom G.

[Evil Tweety]

Hi esqeddy,
there's been some interesting discussion here.  One thing to ask - if you do get a valid buyer and make any kind of profit, please consider making a generous donation to help save the salt.  And if your buyer is new to Bonneville take them by the Save the Salt table and let them know they should donate.  It's an important part of racing out there.

To some of the other posters - I'm curious why some of you feel that someone that "rents a ride" is more likely to take things to court compared to any other racer?  Or why they would be any less capable of driving as any of the other "newbies" that show up every year?  I can see where esqeddy brings himself into the crosshairs should anything go wrong - but I can't see how it makes things any difference for tech inspectors, etc., compared to what other drivers/owners might decide to do.

In some cases too much experience in another form of racing can actually hurt.  I got to watch cockpit video of a person that had lots of drag racing experience - the habit of pulling the shoots right after going out the back door isn't always a good thing at 220+ mph . . .

[836dstr]

To show how things have changed over time:

I am reading a book called "Driving with the devil" by Neal Thompson, about the early days of moonshine running and the birth of NASCAR (great read!).

The first race of the '48 season for the new association was at the 1/2 mile Columbas Speedway track in central Georgia. The crowd arrived early so that they could get a good vantage point along the corners, behind the wooden fence posts and chicken wire used for crowd control. With just a few laps to go race leader Red Byron driving a '39 V-8 Ford lost his right front tire, swerved into the crowd killing a few and injuring more.

There was no mention of law suits or criminal charges. Stuff just happens at races in those days.

Can you imagine if something like that happened in any type of racing event today. The Lawyers would outnumber the paramedics. No offense "esqeddy".

Safety has come a long way 60 years, and should remain the most important issue in racing!

Tom