Sidecar Streamliner Steering and Controls

[tortoise]

Are you talking about Denis's BUB liner or others??  I have a feeling his would not be legal at a SCTA meet.  He runs under different rules and FIM probably doesn't care at all.

Yeah, I was thinking about the BUB liner. Hadn't thought about him not running SCTA. Thanks.

[bak189]

That's why the BUB poster says
"Run what you Brung"..................
 it is a wonderfull thing...................

[JackD]

"Those who chose to live by the sword can die with a shot."

[bak189]

Ruling that cable steering for solo and/or sidecars does not work and is not safe is somewhat premature......Example: 2006
BUB Trials (remember Run what you Brung)
a outstanding piece of engineering.....a 125c.c. long chassis kneeler solo-bike with hub-centre using cable-steering with great success......I watched the bike run with great interest.....and it worked just fine.  With modern tech. that is now on the market, I am sure that a company specializing in power transfer and cable tech. like Barnett
Tool and Eng. could  make cables that would work and be safe at the same time.

[JackD]

I guess you would have to ask BoB George and Denis Manning if they used the best materials with their failed attempts to start.
Then you have to ask yourself why and what would happen with lesser materials and methods ?

[Glen]

I guess the best thing for you to do is run the BUB MEET. At SCTA you will probably be put back on the trailer. The rules set by SCTA are for everyone and they were all written for a reason, usually some kind of failure or worse a crash.

[1212FBGS]

linkage is easier and lighter to build. easier to design from the start then redesign. The Bob George liner I owned and raced originally had cables, Campos and Vesco couldnt drive it. Vesco switched it to linkage and it still didnt work. I tried and no way. I switched it to wheel and linkage. I worked in the shop but was horrible on the salt. With help from the Buckeye bullits generator and Jim Knapps welder we switched it back to h-bars on the salt and set a record. It still wasn't right so we cut it all back out and redid it a 3rd time. 3rd time was the charm. build your machine to pass the toughest rules then you can race all orginazitions. Dont limit yourself to one club. the biggest thing you need is seat time! the more clubs and meets you race the better.
kent

[JackD]

I guess the best thing for you to do is run the BUB MEET. At SCTA you will probably be put back on the trailer. The rules set by SCTA are for everyone and they were all written for a reason, usually some kind of failure or worse a crash.

Glen is mostly a car guy but still pretty reasonable and for a lot of good reasons.
"Knowing the difference is all the difference in the world."

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

  OK, I think I'll stay with the handlebars and push/pull solid linkage system. BUT, I think I'll make it convertable to the butterfly wheel. Remember, this is a SIDECAR You drive a sidecar and you don't use countersteer (unless you want to get the sidecar in the air)

Still, I am courious about the way the ack steering worked. Looks like they used a chain and sprockets to get the steering action they wanted. That would be a good way to increase the steering leverage and slow the steering down.

[JackD]

Variable mounting points for a steering rod will have the same effect to change the steering ratio.

[ack]

OK, I think I'll stay with the handlebars and push/pull solid linkage system. BUT, I think I'll make it convertable to the butterfly wheel. Remember, this is a SIDECAR You drive a sidecar and you don't use countersteer (unless you want to get the sidecar in the air)

Still, I am courious about the way the ack steering worked. Looks like they used a chain and sprockets to get the steering action they wanted. That would be a good way to increase the steering leverage and slow the steering down.

The chain and sprockets control the hydraulic steering dampener which Rocky operates with his right foot.  Variable steering was controlled by a toggle switch which moves the pivot point using a Motion Systems actuator.  We have removed the variable steering as we found it was not needed. 

[JackD]

"Look and you shall see.
 Ask and you shall begin to know."

[Dean Los Angeles]

The handlebar requirement must be to keep it a motorcycle. Two wheels and handlebars are all that separate a bike streamliner from a car.

Cable controls are non-rigid. If you stress any cable system it will flex. That's the last thing you want in a steering mechanism. What you want is rigidity. Not only in the steering pivots and the linkage, but in the frame and suspension. Anything that can flex means you are in for a wild ride.
Unless you enjoy tank slappers!
Oh! You do? Here's two examples.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YD6jruSIELA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=A2svJf4-g4I

[JackD]

At least 2 of the failed attempts used a double cable system with 1 in tension on each side of the front wheel.
They used the best materials available and the preload all but eliminated the stretch/flex.
It was a failed attempt to eliminate bump steer.
The result was the friction prevented the caster in the setup from settling to a happy center and the operator was always attempting to catch up.
It was a lot like getting yourself out of a tank slapper, sometimes you would do well to take both hands and slap your face while the bike settles down.
Too much damper can do the same thing as Vesco taught Campos on the 2nd BOB George liner.

"Not everything you think you see is what you think it is."

[Dean Los Angeles]

It was a lot like getting yourself out of a tank slapper, sometimes you would do well to take both hands and slap your face while the bike settles down.

Jack no doubt spent time with a verrrrry red face.

The absolute truth to the statement is that over control causes as many problems as the poor geometry did in the first place. Humans just don't react fast enough to catch up. By the time the input is made, the opposite is what is needed.