Fuel or Gasoline

[dwarner]

The reason that the SCTA car impound is getting a new test unit is that VP is producing a gasoline product called U2 and U3. This "gas" passed our current test unit and failed miserably on the m/c test set.

A visual and nasal test of U2 convinced many that it is definatly not gasoline. VP does list their products as racing fuel, no difference between gasoline or fuel.

Harold,

I am unable to answer your questions because we have not received our unit yet to become familiar with it's use.

DW

[Harold Bettes]

Dan,
Thanks.

Seems to me that if something that is called gasoline or racing gas or fuel by the supplier might still pass the DC test, although the stuff might not pass the sniff test.

My old chemistry prof started a racing gas business a long time ago (H&H) and they even put oil of wintergreen in the base stock!  He also did NHRA fuel check stuff for years and years. That even got me into the races from time to time.

The issue of "gasoline" is one that is very entertaining as today's pump gas is all over the map on additives and lack of quality. Using a known supplier is obviously a better solution. 

Regards to All,
HB2

[JackD]

I used a lot of H+H gas over the years and it was a very good and predictable product.
The DC testers I used at 100s of MC Drag Races were supplied by him.
The hottest gas is the stuff that F-! uses.
They spin so fast that alky or nitro would never get lit in time.

[Harold Bettes]

Yeah, with the perfect solution (pun intended) for a "gasoline" fuel being triptane,  F-1 folks can afford the $5,000 per drum  ,IF that is what they chose to do. Real octane is 125+ and the stuff simply will not even come close to detonating. Flame speed is supercritical at 15K - 17K RPM! 

Regards to All,
HB2

[1212FBGS]

thats only a hun per gal.... wher can i get some? got a new fangled motor what will spin to 17
kr

[JackD]

There are lots of obsolete F-1 car motors around since they changed their formula.

[hawkwind]

(2,2,3 -trimethylbutane) also known as triptane an iso alkane,according to the American petroleum institute ,research project 45 rated triptane 
MON = 112
RON = 112 
the society of automotive engineers have published the following for triptane
MON = 101
RON = 112 
R+M/ 2 = 106.5
meta xylene ,toluene & benzene  all have octane ratings higher than triptane , I believe the supernatral powers given to triptane origionated during WW 2
Gary

[Dr Goggles]

"its a gas man, thats cool bro"  i have always taken great pride in the fact that all the records i have set have been done 100% within the rules, and this shell 100 stuff had been worring me,,,

straight up! See ya at the lake Ronnie.

[jimmy six]

Since Dan and I are in cahoots with this, I'll chime in here. Off the internet it's easy to get all the information of each racing gas by manufacturer. A competitor at El Mirage showing up in impounds will need to tell us what they are using. When a sample is drawn the first thing will be color; we will move from there to the numbers need to match...

I would not advise anyone from now on to mix different racing brands or grades. If the info is thrown off it's a real probability that the record may not stand. It will be a learning curve but not much of one since the information is available to every one especially on the net and from all the "gasoline" suppliers. The M/C guys have been doing this anyway. Like Dan says it's a moot point at Bonneville.

I have spoken to Rick Gold at ERC and he can ship any of his grades of fuel/gasoline to you. I'm going to use it to tune with since it's what we will be using at B'ville anyway. Good Luck

[Harold Bettes]

Mixing and matching fuel blends (gasoline) play havoc on the DC test and you are quite wise and fair to warn competitors before the scheduled event(s) that a new process is in effect.

To Hawkwind: Note that the method that is used today for octane ratings was not in effect in WWII. Remember the rating of 115/145 for aviation fuel? I do think that triptane is still the queen of all gasolines. The king of fuels of course is nitromethane!

Toluene burns very greasy. Not good for BBQs!

I will dig around in my files and find some decent information to share on the hydro carbons including some interesting stuff on 1,4 dioxane which is a problem that was here in the US a few years back in some of the professional gas burning drag racing categories. Its that covalent bond thing 

Regards to All,
HB2

[Dean Los Angeles]

The lesson to all of the race organizations is that it is much easier to supply the fuel and control the situation then try and bring a chemistry lab to analyze all the combinations.
Harold, I ran oil of wintergreen. I'm not giving on the performance gains, but if nothing else it smells great, and I don't mean the oil of wintergreen smell.
If detonation is your only problem:

		Btu/lb	AF	Resch	Motor
		1 atm	Ratio
CH4	Methane	23,650	17.2	120	120
C7H8	Toluene (methyl benzene)	18,245	13.5	120	109
C8H10	Xylene-m (1,3-dimethyl benzene)	18,434	13.7	118	115
C2H6	Ethane	22,169	16.1	115	99
C10H22	Isodecane (2,2,4-tetramethyl hexane)	20,460	15.1	113	92
C3H8	Propane	21,484	15.7	112	97
C7H16	Triptane	20,614	15.2	112	101
C8H10	Ethyl Benzene	18,487	13.7	111	98
C6H12	1,1,2-trimethyl cyclopropane		14.8	111	88
C2H60	Ethanol	12,780	9	107	89
CH40	Methanol	9,770	6.4	106	92

Good luck putting Methane in the tank. Bring a cow.
But detonation isn't your only problem. If you are looking for a land speed record you are looking for the biggest bang. Notice that Triptane gets you 20,614 btu's, Methane 23,650, Methanol 9,770. Nitromethane isn't on the list because it doesn't have an octane rating due to it's combustion properties. It gets you 5,160 btu's
The trick here isn't btu's per pound of fuel, it's btu's per pound of air, and that's where the air/fuel ratio makes the real horsepower. Internal combustion engines are air limited.

		Btu/lb	AF	Resch	Motor
		1 atm	Ratio			btu/lb air
CH3NO2	Nitromethane	5,160	1.7			3035
C2H5NO2	Nitroethane	7,790	4.1			1900
CH40	Methanol	9,770	6.4	106	92	1527
C2H60	Ethanol	12,780	9	107	89	1420
C3H6	Propene (propylene)	20,943	14.8	102	85	1415
C6H10	1,5-hexadiene	20,170	14.3	71	38	1410
C5H8	Isoprene (2-methyl-1,3-butadiene)	19,998	14.2	99	81	1408
C4H8	Butene-1	20,727	14.8	99	80	1400
C4H10O	Butanol	15,500	11.1			1396
C5H10	Pentene-1	20,590	14.8	91	77	1391
C5H8	Cyclopentene	19,672	14.2	93	70	1385
C6H12	Hexene-1	20,495	14.8	76	63	1385
C3H8O	Propanol	14,500	10.5			1381

Gasoline averages about 1359 btu's per pound of air. Triptane 1356. As well as knowing the detonation gains, the heat gain is where you want to go.
Methanol gets you about 22% more bang and runs cooler. Never could understand setting a fuel record with gas.
I do understand running Methanol. Nitromethane gets you 123% more bang, but you can see why the molten trophy deparment gets big in a hurry.
Properties of hydrocarbons:
http://www.me.mtu.edu/~slpost/CLASS/hcprop.html

[Harold Bettes]

Great post! It is always worthwhile to reference Obert.

Your point on the heat energy contained at target A/F ratios is spot on and running rich for the 90sec or so that one is on the gas at Bonneville is something that you guys that are experienced probably take for granted. When drag racers come to the salt, I assume that the first thing in tuning that is tried is to lean the mixture

I assume that the comment on the oil of wintergreen additive and the appreciation of the smell of the exhaust is also shared by others that had exhaust smell like shoe polish at one time or another, too. 

Thanks again for the extra effort with the post.

Regards to All,
HB2

[jimmy six]

I believe setting a fuel record on gasoline was just for convenience. Most of the guys were running gasoline because they understood it. If they went faster than the gas record and the fuel record was open or lower because it was an old record they just went in and got it. Nitro scares people and until you run it that seems to stay. There is also an expense some don't want.  Running 50% has an expense, from the little experience I've had a Mag is a must the higher the amperage the better. Oil changes become very frequent where a gasoline engine could last all season. Hey it all adds up.

Over the years nitrous has taken over many of the fuel classes because it "appears" easier. When someone willing to stick 90% nitro in the tank and knows how to make it live. The record falls.

In the long run the correct "stuff" will win out.

[promachine]

Yea, J.D., who would be crazy enough to run over 90%?   

[Dean Los Angeles]

Never could understand setting a fuel record with gas.

And I should have added, and nitrous. Anybody serious about an unblown fuel record has to be running nitrous oxide and Methanol/Nitromethane.