BSI Type A vs Snell 2000

[dirtydave]

I'm not sure what's going on with the helmet issue in the US but a suomy doesn't carry snell in OZ so you can't where them in Drag Racing as they only recognise Snell for Group 1 motorcycles, problem here is the rest of the countries motorcycle groups don't recognise Snell , so the manufacturers of High End motorcycle helmets don't build the helmets to or pay snell for certification, So a top of the line European or Asian Helmet usually only carries British or Australian Standard, which caters for almost every quality of helmet,,,here
It would be good if we had an international recognised helmet standard just for racing purposes,
My expensive non compliant helmet is certainly a much better helmet than my compliant one...

My other argument is no one ever checks if the helmet you present to scruteneering actually fits your cranium, I can recall a Famous Australia Racing Car driver pull a lose helmet off over the top of his glass's for a television interview at the end of a race,
My point being is the best helmet in the world ain't going to save you if it don't fit your head, I've seen many racers share helmets before,,,

[bbb]

same with leathers, back protectors, gloves, boots. or so i've seen.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Be careful what you ask for - you might get it. 

I'll admit that I've never included a "roll-off-the-head" check of a helmet when I've inspected.  I'll offer the caveat that I've never been asked to prove that my helmet/head would pass such a test.  Jack's right on some of the stuff he mention (maybe all, but I don't want him to think I'm trying to suck up to him) -- we might allow a non-approved face shield, and do we ask for the optician's certification that the eye glasses the racer is wearing are really shatterproof?

But I'll promise that I'll be discussing this lack of strict adherence to the rule with the other inspectors with whom I work, and might even mention it to the folks that offer suggestions to the starters at the various venues.  Not that the starters necessarily have time to try to yank the helmet off the head of every racer they are about to send down the course, but they do check for a current inspection sticker -- and it might be possible to have them confirm that the wearer of the helmet is the person that presented it for the roll-off test.  I haven't found a starter that doesn't at least check to make sure the strap is snug, so that's a start -- but it's still not what the rule states is required.

Remember that a somewhat-related situation brought us the SCTA's proof-of-inspection stud for leathers, and that seems to work well (this'll be only the third year for the system, but so far, so good).  Will we require that helmets have a sticker listig rider/driver's name, and the starter will rear the sticker and then ask the opertor of the vehicle "Are you Joe Blow?".   Many times the starter and the racer know one another -- many times they don't, and that question might be appropriate.

Back to you. . .

[JackD]

Not to mention underwear because BBB doesn't wear any. LOL
Actually the FIM does publish on line a more complete list of suitable racing helmets that are more available worldwide because that is where they race.
That might be a good next thing to list and if it was available at tech with both the rider and as general information with the tech person it might take some of the mystery out for everybody.
If other things can make refrence to SFI for example the rule does not have to publish a list that is so availale but jut make refrence to it.
For example a line in the book might read: A complete listing is available at www.FIM.xxxxxxxx.org.
That is short, sweet, and complete.
The more it is made the same for everybody the better chance there is to get it right.

[JackD]

The deal with Higbee was the rider went to the line with his eyes crossed and Higbee pulled the strap until your vision cleared.
People sucking up give me the creeps.
Clearly understood, safe, and equally enforced rules serve everybody better.
Isn't that the real objective ?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I've received three "responses" to my question about helmet roll off testing. 

First of all, here are the rules:  ECTA 2007 rulebook, section VI-3 A says:  "All riders must wear a full-face coverge helmet certified to meet Snell Foundation 2000 specifications or equivalent."


SCTA 2007 rulebook says:  "7.C.1   Driver?s Helmet: All riders must wear a full-face helmet with face shield, which must meet Snell Foundation M2000 or later specifications. No open face helmets will be allowed. Helmets will be visually inspected at least once each year. Helmets must be undamaged, unmodified and in serviceable condition. Eyeglasses worn under the helmet must be shatterproof.

Riders must demonstrate proper helmet fit and ?roll off? resistance."


The responses I have received pretty well follow what the rules require.  Here's a summary:  ECTA folks have stated that they'd be concerned about the subjectivity of such a fitment check -- "The inspector damn near pulled my head off" or "The inspector barely tugged my helmet -- not a valid check", and also that maybe we should have a handout made up to distribute to the racers offering the suggestion that they check their own helmets -- and show them how we'd suggest they do that.  There was also a comment about the fact that we don't check for proper fit of the leathers -- that many suits are too loose and wouldn't provide optimum protection in the event of a get-off.

The SCTA response that I've got back so far was "Yes, we should do a roll off test to check the fit of helmets. If they are too big they can roll forward, even with the strap fastened. We also never check to see if leathers fit the rider. Could be borrowed ones, etc. However, we can and should be having the rider put the helmet on, and we should check it.

That's it for now -- ECTA and SCTA members that do motorcycle inspecting both seem to feel that the rule should be followed as written; both also say that leathers fit should be confirmed.

Please note this caveat:  None of the folks that offered comments implied that their comments represent the official stance of the sanctioning organisation(s), nor should you assume that they meant to do so.  Nor do I mean to suggest that I'm going to state that this is the final word on the subject.  I stated in my original post that all I would do is ask the question, and here's what I've found so far.  It often happens that someone will pose a situation on this forum and feel that his question didn't get a fair hearing.  I tried to find out a bit of data, that's all.  Take it with as many grains of salt as you wish.  I'll let you know if any others check in with comments.

[JackD]

As a parallel is the distaste a lot of male racers have for women riding / driving entries that were fitted for a much larger person.
While some of it is a pride thing for sure, the worst is the lack of proper fit and the difference was made up with pillows and stuff.
If the provisions of the entry are designed to fit the stature of the racer, the ability is all that is left and is the great equalizer.   

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Z Custom leathers -- fit pretty well.  Men's suits require guys to take and submit 20 measurements -- women's require 24.  Both Nancy and I wear Z Leathers.  A basic outfit will cost about the same as a decent set of off-the-rack leathers -- and will fit much better.  Visit Z's website and take a look at how they want you to measure -- and then see if the leathers you bought are made to fit that well.  Safety isn't all that expensive -- and  while baggy clothes might be cool on guys in hip-hop videos, they aren't so snazzy at the race track.

[JackD]

Various helmet makers publish a check list so a customer can determine what to check for a proper fit.

[nickelcityracing]

Well this subject is not dead yet, I am currently in discussions with Joe T. from the ECTA and R. Marlin the Director of Suomy. We or I am anyways, trying to get this rule changed or altered and allowing BSI rated helmets allowed at Maxton. I am  being told this is an insurance thing, which is probably true, I know how insurance companys work in Canada and you dont want to deal with them any more than you have to.  Suomy is being helpful and is going to try and help us get this done. The ECTA is also being helpful in telling us what they need......we will see what happens.....Jody

[JackD]

The insurance is based on the published rules and any deviation from that is a liability exposure.
A mid season revision for safety would only require a suitable notice to the carrier and their acknowledgement.
Bindar Dun DAT