BSI Type A vs Snell 2000

[nickelcityracing]

Why is a Snell 2000 helmet better than a BSI Type A or is it?  Is a Suomy BSI Type A helmet allowed in the ECTA? Trillium

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Trillium, why don't you ask an easy question -- like why are Catholics better than Buddists, or why are fords better than Chevvies?

I'll not get into the argument discussing whether any particular safety certification standards are "better" than others, because I don't know if there is a solid reason.  There may be -- I just don't know.

I'll betcha I'm safe in saying, though, that some racing sanctioning organisation, sometime, chose to try to define helmet standards and picked Snell as the standard they'd follow.  Snell's pretty open about their criteria (so may be the othrs), and Snell's pretty upfront about their testing methods (again, maybe the others are too, but I haven't looked).

And for sure -- many of the helmets we can purchase in the US are Snell rated, and therefore there's a good chance that the helmet you have with you when you show up at a race event will Snell-rated, and therefore the inspector will know that your helmet meets some safety requirements.  BSI, or whomever -- may be as good, might even be better, might not -- I'm not the guy that analyses these standards to decide what you may or may not wear.  But I am the guy that decided to respond to your question...sorta.

Happy Holidays from Marquette, where darn near all the snow has melted in the past week.

[Dean Los Angeles]

I think the ECTA requires Snell 2000 certification. Some of the Suomy helmets are certified. Check here:
http://www.smf.org/certlist/std_M2000.html
BS 6658 Type A Kitemark is the British standard, and different from the Snell rating. Some racing organizations require BSI. SCTA and I think ECTA require Snell certification.
From the Suomy web site:
http://suomy-usa.com/ssafetya.htm

Is it true that Suomy BSI certified helmets are over 300 grams lighter than the Suomy helmet certified to the Snell standard and if so, why?
a. Yes! A BSI certified Suomy helmet might be as much as 300 grams lighter than it.s Snell counterpart (we manufacture OEM helmets for Ducati and Aprilia to the Snell standard). The difference is merited out of the variances between the two standards protocols. These testing protocols may vary in such ways as head form weight, falling mass, measurements such as the distance velocity is measured above the impact site, velocity at point of impact and drop heights. The significant deviation between Snell and the BSI Type A is in the second drop height, with Snell's second drop being higher than BSI's second drop (most experts will agree that the second impact drop height for Snell is not relevant to motorcycling but reflects the particular demands of auto racing where the driver's head may impact a roll cage several times during a crash). This differentiation results in a lighter, less rigid outer shell requirement to pass the demanding BSI 6658 Type A test. This decrease in shell rigidity allows the helmet to work in concert with the EPS system (expanded polystyrene) to better mitigate energies experienced at speeds where the rigid shell of the Snell configuration can fall short, without compromising the fundamental energy management of much higher energy loads. A helmet that performs to the standard at the lightest possible weight reduces total pivoting mass, head deceleration and will tire rider less, thus increasing safety. In addition, lighter helmets are more likely to be worn and wearing one is the single critical factor in the prevention of and reduction in head injury. (Source . The HURT Report Summary, Line #45 - www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html University Of Wisconsin).

13. I understand that BSI 6658 Type A and Snell M2000 are the only nationally recognized racing standards in the USA. But I don't race. Is a Snell or BSI Type A certified helmet safer than a DOT certified helmet for my street riding?
a. While the Snell standard is recognized by the general public as superior to DOT for the racing community, many experts believe that a helmet manufactured to the DOT standard is actually safer for street riding than a helmet manufactured specifically to the Snell standard. At first Glance this might seem illogical, after all if Snell is good enough for racers than it must be better for street riders, right? This is not always the case! With the Median motorcycle street accident being just 29.8 MPH prior to impact, (Source . The HURT Report Summary, Line #15 - http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html University Of Wisconsin), and many impacts being a glancing blow to the side of the head, a typical Snell certified helmet might not experience ENOUGH energy to properly dissipate the energy being transmitted to the head (this is a result of the heavier and stiffer outer shell that the higher Snell second drop on a hemi anvil requires). This may result in unnecessary concussion or head injury.

So the answer is . . . well, answer a few questions first. When is your next accident going to be? How hard will your head hit? At what angle? Will there be a second impact? If you could answer those questions you could design the helmet to much better suit THAT accident. Since you can't answer any of those questions, helmet manufacturers try to reach a happy medium that will save your life. That's save your life, not prevent injury. There are limits to what you can do with your head. Boxers sustain brain injuries every time they get hit. It accumulates over time and they get "punch drunk" (Dementia pugilistica). It also happens to someone that acquires multiple concussions.
So, #1 don't hit your head, #2 IF you are going to hit your head, get a good helmet.
Since this is already a long post, and I don't have ANYTHING better to do, here is a question - why is it that you would never catch a street racer in anything but a full face helmet, and a Harley type wouldn't be found dead in one. It's amazing how fashion dictates what you wear and allows you to totally ignore safety.
From the HURT report referenced above:

49. The increased coverage of the full facial coverage helmet increases protection, and significantly reduces face injuries.

[JackD]

Various answers in no particular order.
1. Street riders like the full face helmet amoung other things because the cop can't get a look at your face during the chase.
2. HD riders don't get stopped unless it is a gang enforcement detail and they usually already have your picture..
3. Not invented here.
4. Most Worldwide MC sanctions use another standard other than Snell.
5. Liability Inurance requires that all the test methods be published.

[jimmy six]

Helmeets! Helmeets wedonneednostinkeenhelmeets...HD rider...JD

ps. When cali passed the helmet law it really pi--ed off my wife. She knew I was going to die, now I might be a veggie and she will need take care of me.....

[JackD]

OH OH, JD , You left yourself wide open for that one.
My wife even lets me fly My plane without a helmet.
She does have My life insurance policy on  wallet card though.  LOL

[KeithTurk]

I spent some serious time investigating these standards last year... went thru the Hurt report stuff and a bunch of other crap.   The Snell 2000 rule works... the other stuff can be very questionable ... the DOT standard is good if you have a 10 dollar head...

If you stick with a quality Helmet with a Snell rating... your going to get thru tech at any event.... anything less and .... well there you go.

K

[nickelcityracing]

sounds good Keith, was just checking, I saw alot of 100$ snell approved helmets,was just seeing if our 800$ bsi rated helmet was ok....thanks Jody

[1212FBGS]

Snell and DOT are insurance accepted standards... i'm sure the SCTA would probably let you argue aceptance of a new standrd to the insurance carrier. hell i hate calling mine to get screwed up billing fixed.... good luck!
Kent

[guttley782]

Here in the Uk we have the ACU standard for racing, which is the highest in the world, as used by all the Moto GP racers. We have had trouble twice at Speed week with our $900 helmets, until sense prevailed and the officials realised that the Snell sticker/standard is not used in Europe (or outside the USA?).  The comment of how much is your head worth works for me, after a 130mph crash in the Isle Of Man races. I broke nine bones etc, but am still here.

[JackD]

In wiser days the helmet rule for bikes said Snell or better.
I guess the conventional wisdom was not better enough and they changed the rule to prohibit "Not Invented here or better".
The World must be as flat and centered in So Cal as they think and they don't think you think at all.

REMARKABLE

[dwarner]

Rules are reworded in the interest of brevity(sp?) and consistancey. Have at me Jack.

DW

[nickelcityracing]

thanks for all the replies guys, our canadian heads are very important to us also.....been doing more reading and as far as I can see my BSI rated suomy helmet would be as good or better than any snell rated helmet.....I do not want to raise too much of a fuss, we still want to be able to run at these events. Since there is none up here in Canada....I do agree that the ecta must keep things as simple as possible, there is many rules that can be interpreted one way or an other, and we cant revise or expect them to revise all of them.......see you guys in march....Jody

[JackD]

EASY DONE
 Of course all of this is in the in interest of safety, consistency, and to be easily understood without repetition to confuse the message.
The more you have to repeat yourself indicates the understanding is lacking on both sides.
The first thing should be comments on the existing ruling, followed by some suggested changes that might improve it, and finally a reminder how to be best heard with some assurance it has been considered.
Remember this is how I feel but I suspect there are others and they might even chime in.

7.C.1 Drivers helmet: All drivers/ riders must wear a full-face helmet with face shield, which must meet Snell Foundation M2000 or later specifications.(The face shield is part of the required helmet just like the lining or the strap. You will remember a car driver lost his life in part because the strap was modified with most of the lining removed and it came off.)
No open face helmets will be allowed. (Didn't it already say a full - face with face shield is required ?)
Helmets will be visually inspected at least once each year. ( Should they not be inspected each time they are used and a suitable non transferable sticker be used for additional quick visual reference for any official ?)
Helmets must be undamaged, unmodified and in serviceable condition. (Isn't that part of the original approval standard and what if a helmet is damaged, fixed with bondo, and or painted, how would you know ?
While a look at tech might allow it to pass, only the wearer knows for sure and when you additionally spell out unenforceable rules you become additionally liable.)
Eyeglasses worn under the helmet must be shatterproof. ( Not a bad rule but if it is not enforced it is a bad sign).
Riders must demonstrate proper helmet fit and "roll off" resistance. (Not a bad rule at tech but the gear must be restricted to the use by the entrant that was inspected with it.
 A suitable non transferable tag should include the wearers name to limit passing it around.)

PROPOSED
7.C.1  Safety Helmet (This is a common term used throughout the industry and does not imply that wearing it makes you safe.)
All entrants must wear a full face coverage safety helmet certified to meet Snell Foundation M-2000 or equivalent specifications. ( It goes without saying and saying with the burden of proof always on the entrant.)
Eye wear under the shield must be shatterproof. (Glass sunglasses are rarely shatterproof.)


While I didn't count the individual letters, that was not my point but I hope somebody will.
I would expect whatever final wording comes from this, all of the people that support it contact SCTA in the required fashion with a copy to somebody that is willing to maintain a suitable abeyence file so the progress might be independently tracked.

Arncha glad ya aked ?

[hawkwind]

I spent some serious time investigating these standards last year... went thru the Hurt report stuff and a bunch of other crap.   The Snell 2000 rule works... the other stuff can be very questionable ... the DOT standard is good if you have a 10 dollar head...

If you stick with a quality Helmet with a Snell rating... your going to get thru tech at any event.... anything less and .... well there you go.

K

Got to disagree with you on this one Keith , there are many worlds best practice /world class helmet testing standards ,with snell being only one ,claiming "snell" is better than all the others is at best being bloody parochial,the DLRA recognises the worth of other excellent helmet and safety standards and lets the racer choose which one to use ( at least for the motorcycle racers ) and the car blokes can choose other than SFI as well ,IMHO its time the SCTA pulled their collective heads out of the sand and admit that there is equal or better beyond the shores of the good ol USA
Gary