Solid Wheels

[Passenger_1]

I'm part of a team that are currently building a streamliner sidecar in which we want to utilise an 18" outside diameter front wheel.  The front wheel static downward loading will be approximately 250 - 300 lb.
There are two parts to my question:

1). Are there any tyres available in this size that are rated for speeds in excess of 230 mph that are accepted for speed trials; I understand that we can get a 22" outside diameter tyre.

2). Can we utilise a solid wheel turned from one peice of aluminium?  There is nothing in the FIM riles preventing this but there may well be something that we've overlooked.

Obviously the solid wheel is preferred as tyre issues are not present but would really appreciate some guidance here.
Cheers  David

[bbb]

why not use a 17" wheel? there are oodles of rim/tire/rotor/bearing options across 11 OEM manufacturers and countless aftermarket options as well.

[Glen]

IN SCTA/BNI solid front wheels are not allowed. Not sure about other venues. They are a problem with cross winds and have a flywheel effect as well. I am sure one of the MC rules people will jump in and talk about it. Rear solid wheels are allowed. This ruling is in the 2006 rule book.

[JackD]

THX for asking.
This is a good place to start.
Both MC liners that I am aware of failed when they tried a solid front wheel.
First was Dave Campos in 89 and later a rocket powered 2 wheeler under AMA/FIM.
I was the chief steward for both of them.
The problem is a bike, a sidecar is worse, needs the side thrust (traction) to remain upright and on the proper heading.
When the Campos machine tried to stay upright with some steering input it quickly lost the grip and it crashed with what might be the altitude record.
The Rocket 2 wheeler was only allowed to try it at towing speeds and did not seek prior permission as you are wise to do.
They found even at towing speeds the wheel was unmanageable.
A sidecar rig would put a substantial side load in the bike from the start and be subject to even worse conditions.
If as you say the AMA/ FIM does not prohibit it now it is a bad idea with no basis in fact and SCTA should not allow it.
The 17 inch rim and tire package as used on Top Furl cars is proably your best bet.
That design is very close to what Goodyear and others have produced for LSR bikes in the past.
Jack

[landracing]

Sam Wheeler also tried it on the EZHook without success...

Jon

[Passenger_1]

Thanks for all of your input.  I was unaware that the salt surface was so slippery that it required rubber to get the wheel to grip - especially for transverse loads such as steering and wind forces.
Could you please confirm that the 17" wheels and tyres referred to that are readily available is measured as the total tyre outside diameter or is this the rim bead diameter?
Thanking you all in advance.
David

[JackD]

Conditions on the salt vary quite a bit from day to day even from one end of the track to the other during a  run.
The only constant is the solid wheel has no contact patch to get a grip and transmit steering input or driving power.
Imagine a steel wheel in contact with a paved surface and you get the idea.
I believe any Goodyear store will have a catalog of all their products with all the dimensions.
Like any tire designed for something else, you have to find one that is suitable for use on the salt because there is none manufactured for your particular use.
It sound like the 17 inch rim, Top Fuel front combination is best suited to you.
Jack

[bak189]

Having races landspeed sidecars for over 25 years, we have learned that on the front of a sidecar rig/streamliner requires a good size tire....we tryed a 17 inch front- runner off dragsters, and found that the contact patch was not large enough to give me a feel
of the direction of travel.  Keep in mind in order to set a sidecar rig up properly there hs to be a certain amount of toe-in on the sidecar wheel....this will effect the steering (front) wheel

[1212FBGS]

you can use a front wheel machined out of solid and any tire as long as it is rated for the speed of the current record. in sidecar you can use a wheel that is not cross vented and you can cover the front wheel. if you exceed 250mph you must use land speed tires

[bak189]

As a follow up to my last post.........If I was building a sidecar streamliner at this time
I would use 15 inch wheels all around, and use racing tires that are presently being used on the front of dragster Funny Cars.
They should hold up fine for your projected speed of 230mph.
(we are using a 15inch M&H 3.6/24.00-15 on our present rig)

[Passenger_1]

Thanks for all of the input on this topic - based on the feedback it is obvious that We will need to use either 15" or 17" wheels and rubber tyres - thank goodness we asked first!
Would there be any objection to using a small solid aluminium wheel just on the sidecar as it dosn't need to grip the salt for either drive or steering.
One final wheel/tyre question, does anyone know what wheel/tyre combination EZ Hook use, I'm especially interested in the rear wheel.
Thanks again for all of your suggestions.
Cheers David

[RidgeRunner]

     Sam has had a problem getting replcement tires for his current combination.  Pork Pie has said on another thread that a new combination is in the works, formal anouncement should be comming shortly.

[PorkPie]

     Sam has had a problem getting replcement tires for his current combination.  Pork Pie has said on another thread that a new combination is in the works, formal anouncement should be comming shortly.

It's so that this company designed and produced tires for sit on bikes with a rate of 250 mph - so tires was used by Heinz Herz during the BUB meet on the NSU replica. This tires are in the last test phase, so they will be available very soon - the idea was before the next bike season starts - means beginning of next year - this is the current status.

This company is interest to get a better popularity in the states - producing a tire which set an absolute record on a motorcycle would be not a bad advertisment.

Heinz is talking with this company to get a tire for Sam, the current status is positive - if they produce this tire then they will also go for others sizes - which would be great for the cyclist at the salt.

The market at the salt for so tires is going bigger and bigger - with the right guy is sitting in the managment we can hope in the moment that at last we will see this tires.

Will keep you update when I hear more.

[Malcolm UK]

The Mach3Challenger ran a solid (tyreless) wheel in testing at Bonneville under power but the salt conditions in 1999 (inconsistent from mile to mile, were such that it had to be replaced - along with the solid rear.  Remember the rear deflated after being taken to 365 mph! 

The Bub organisers and the FIM (who looked after our private time) were happy with the tyreless wheel concept and the salt lake BLM found no problems either.  However the wheel arrangement was designed for a more compliant surface as well as the 400 to 500 mph speed envelope. 

If you are running on some surface other than salt there is nothing yet to say it is a poor idea for high speed two wheeled use.

Malcolm