Author Topic: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?  (Read 19393 times)

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Offline puppy

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2020, 10:17:48 PM »
That was a fair question from somebody that has never been there & is interested in our situation so I would like to apologize on behalf of our forum member that snapped you off like you were the one who took our salt away.
The salt crust, what's left of it, sits on top of salt saturated brine dirt, Once exposed to the sun it does dry with a crust but it's a gamble whether it will support a vehicle or not. Once you break through that dirt crust you have sunk into caramel pudding.
  Sid.
Oh I see. Very interesting...
Bobby

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2020, 10:47:38 PM »
If one gets close enough to a well designed football field,
one can appreciate that the field is crowned, just like a road. 

That crown encourages, in both cases, the water to run off to the sides.

Bonneville however is "built"in a LOW spot ,
where the rain and run-off from
the mountains actually gathers!

(If you use Google Earth and run your cursor around,
the legend on the bottom of the page will tell you the altitude. 
There isn't much change, but the low spot
is where the track usually winds up.)

Being in the low spot is probably GOOD
for salt being dissolved in the surrounding hills,
and settling onto where we need it - the TRACK.

But the same condition make into the LAST place
to get dry in the summer, and the spot MOST likely
 to have a high water table - relative to the racing surface.

That has NOTHING to do with the pumping !
That's incorrect. It appears you don't have knowledge of how the salt is removed.
There is a pumping system that Intrepid use to pump tailings from their product waste ponds back to the salt flats. That is known as "the pumping program" & that was in theory supposed to build up the salt crust thickness. While that is in progress the drains going back to the Mining operation are plugged, allowing that water to mix with any fresh water runoff from the surrounding mountains to saturate with salt.
Once Intrepid has decided they have the best saturation point, they pull the plugs & drain it through canals to the plant. If it stopped there your theory would hold some water but that's not the case.
Between the salt flats & the Silver Island Mountains there are a number of pumps pulling from the water table under the flats that flow through canals, one of which goes right across The Bend where many people camp out.
At the far East end of the flats there is a much larger pumping system that is also pulling from the water table that feeds another canal that is at least 20ft wide & also flows to the plant.
The slight depression you speak of is actually enhanced by that pumping system & the lowest point of that depression has the most salt crust thickness but that crust is now down to about One Inch at best! Back in the 80's when I first started racing there was salt way down beyond 13 miles where it started getting thin & we used to run the streamliner way down there to prepare for return record runs. Due to the Salt loss that situation is now "Eight Miles closer" to the start line.
  Sid.
     

 

Offline johnneilson

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2020, 09:39:25 AM »
Well, John, if I remember somewhere near correctly, Utah put up $1 Million if the feds kicked in $10 Million or so.  You and I know how much the present administration is conservation biased.  So it didn't happen.

Sounds like they're asking to extend it for another year.  Think there will be a different answer?

Originally it was 5 mil.
Not that long ago...........
https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2019/11/state-of-utah-approves-5-million-to-restore-bonneville-salt-flats?_ga=2.12520884.1006774979.1591277688-981174179.1591277688&__utma=95790915.981174179.1591277688.1591277797.1591277797.1&__utmb=95790915.0.10.1591277797&__utmc=95790915&__utmx=-&__utmz=95790915.1591277797.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=-&__utmk=199056231
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline ratpatrol66

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2020, 05:09:18 PM »
I drove by Intrepid a few years ago and there what appeared to be large piles of salt sitting on the ground near some rail cars. They were loading salt into these cars. I took a few pictures showing a couple rail cars full of salt or maybe potash? I will post pictures when I get home later tonight.

Offline ratpatrol66

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2020, 03:26:41 PM »
Having troubles finding the pics, might be on old phone?

Offline gowing

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2020, 05:50:19 PM »
from the SEMA article:
"The $1 million committed by the state of Utah has leveraged up to $4 million from the BLM for this year, with additional federal contributions planned in future years. The creation of the Restore Bonneville program comes at a crucial juncture. The current surface depth is measured in inches rather than feet, and the 13-mile racetrack is now less than 8 miles. The program funding from the State of Utah is critical to saving this national treasure and creating good jobs for Utahns. "

Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2020, 08:14:21 AM »
Just what does this "Restore Bonneville " program do?

Anybody?
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2020, 08:51:44 AM »
Well there are several interested parties

Racer dreams:  15-18 miles of good thick hard salt
College Professors:   an entire career of grants for studies and nothing finally determined
State of Utah:  enough improvement that keeps people coming and gives them a bang for their $
BLM:
Dept Interior:
Federal Pols:
SEMA:
Save the Salt
SCTA:
Most LIKELY OUT COME:  :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:

JEEZ am I cynical or what this morning!!
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

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Offline desotoman

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2020, 12:11:33 PM »

Most LIKELY OUT COME:  :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:

JEEZ am I cynical or what this morning!!


Nope, just being realistic.

We will just have to wait and see what size Band-Aid is applied to the problem. JMO.

Tom G.
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Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

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Offline jdincau

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2020, 02:36:27 PM »


Being in the low spot is probably GOOD
for salt being dissolved in the surrounding hills,
and settling onto where we need it - the TRACK.


This is how it worked, but it happened a couple of million years ago, filling a huge lake that evaporated. It is not happening now.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 02:48:39 PM by jdincau »
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline johnneilson

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2020, 11:21:26 AM »

Most LIKELY OUT COME:  :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:

JEEZ am I cynical or what this morning!!


Nope, just being realistic.

We will just have to wait and see what size Band-Aid is applied to the problem. JMO.

Tom G.

Band-aid might not be sufficient, may need a roll or two of duct tape......
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2020, 12:51:06 PM »
Here's my opinion & you know I say it like I see it!
 After all the money is raised & spent, all the bull$hit is spread out thinner than the salt & all the pats on the back subside, Bonneville will be less than it is today before the profit margin becomes too small for Mining to continue.
 When the drains are plugged & the pumps finally shut down, the salt loss will stop but by that time, will there be any crust left for us to race on or will The Bureau of Land Mismanagement come up with some reason we can't go there anymore??
  Sid.

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2020, 02:20:21 PM »
Just what does this "Restore Bonneville " program do?

Anybody?

I typed "restore bonneville" into google. Several items one from SEMA & one from Save the Salt give insight into what is currently going on. It is dated but there is current information out there too. Just got to look.
My view is doing something is better than nothing.  :cheers:
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Offline ski123

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2020, 03:39:46 PM »
It's getting bad when the racers are crustier then the salt.  Good luck, good health and good grief!

Offline maj

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Re: Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ?
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2020, 05:08:28 PM »
Here's my opinion & you know I say it like I see it!
 After all the money is raised & spent, all the bull$hit is spread out thinner than the salt & all the pats on the back subside, Bonneville will be less than it is today before the profit margin becomes too small for Mining to continue.
 When the drains are plugged & the pumps finally shut down, the salt loss will stop but by that time, will there be any crust left for us to race on or will The Bureau of Land Mismanagement come up with some reason we can't go there anymore??
  Sid.

Unfortunately i think the mud will yield enough salt for the pumps to continue operating long after there is surface salt