Which is best for the fuel class - gas and nitrous, or methanol

[RansomT]

Hand Raised!

Tested on my dyno all kinds of fuel combos.  For a nitrous built engine: a quality E85 wins but you still battle exhaust temps when you spray a gob (like 200 HP over a 200 NA engine).  Notice I said quality, what you get out of the pump is "o.k." for brief testing, but doesn't fair well on the track.  I personally run Ignite Race Fuels.  Methonal (M1) does better with the exhaust temps, but does rob power because it fills the cylinder more, M5 gains a little back, but....  Secret: there is a limit on how much you can spray, once the cylinder is full of nitrous that's all the HP it will make.  With gasoline based fuels, C16, exhaust temps get out of hand and melt a lot of things.

Blown.  at lower boost levels, when I say lower I mean like 30 psi and under, E85 wins again.  However, above that boost level you can't beat M1, you don't "need" an intercooler until a Mega LOT of boost.  Powerwise C16 produces a little less than E85, but a lot of work has to be focused on keeping those intake temps down.

N/A motors.  using non-oxygenated gas based fuels verses Methanol verses E85.  "Quality" E85 wins again.  Oxy Fuels like MR12 or MRX02 or even U 4.4  are hard too beat.  Using MR12 is like a small shot of nitrous, I pick up 10-12 wHP on a 200 wHP motorcycle verses non-oxy fuels.

[Doc B.]

I've seen a N/A two stroke bike run a couple mph faster just by switching from non oxy to oxy gas on the salt.

[stay`tee]

Hand Raised!

Tested on my dyno all kinds of fuel combos.  For a nitrous built engine: a quality E85 wins but you still battle exhaust temps when you spray a gob (like 200 HP over a 200 NA engine).  Notice I said quality, what you get out of the pump is "o.k." for brief testing, but doesn't fair well on the track.  I personally run Ignite Race Fuels.  Methonal (M1) does better with the exhaust temps, but does rob power because it fills the cylinder more, M5 gains a little back, but....  Secret: there is a limit on how much you can spray, once the cylinder is full of nitrous that's all the HP it will make.  With gasoline based fuels, C16, exhaust temps get out of hand and melt a lot of things.

Blown.  at lower boost levels, when I say lower I mean like 30 psi and under, E85 wins again.  However, above that boost level you can't beat M1, you don't "need" an intercooler until a Mega LOT of boost.  Powerwise C16 produces a little less than E85, but a lot of work has to be focused on keeping those intake temps down.

N/A motors.  using non-oxygenated gas based fuels verses Methanol verses E85.  "Quality" E85 wins again.  Oxy Fuels like MR12 or MRX02 or even U 4.4  are hard too beat.  Using MR12 is like a small shot of nitrous, I pick up 10-12 wHP on a 200 wHP motorcycle verses non-oxy fuels.

Without yhe Nitrous, what advantages/disavantages did you see with M5 over M1 ?

[edinlr]

Hand Raised!

Tested on my dyno all kinds of fuel combos.  For a nitrous built engine: a quality E85 wins but you still battle exhaust temps when you spray a gob (like 200 HP over a 200 NA engine).  Notice I said quality, what you get out of the pump is "o.k." for brief testing, but doesn't fair well on the track.  I personally run Ignite Race Fuels.  Methonal (M1) does better with the exhaust temps, but does rob power because it fills the cylinder more, M5 gains a little back, but....  Secret: there is a limit on how much you can spray, once the cylinder is full of nitrous that's all the HP it will make.  With gasoline based fuels, C16, exhaust temps get out of hand and melt a lot of things.

Blown.  at lower boost levels, when I say lower I mean like 30 psi and under, E85 wins again.  However, above that boost level you can't beat M1, you don't "need" an intercooler until a Mega LOT of boost.  Powerwise C16 produces a little less than E85, but a lot of work has to be focused on keeping those intake temps down.

N/A motors.  using non-oxygenated gas based fuels verses Methanol verses E85.  "Quality" E85 wins again.  Oxy Fuels like MR12 or MRX02 or even U 4.4  are hard too beat.  Using MR12 is like a small shot of nitrous, I pick up 10-12 wHP on a 200 wHP motorcycle verses non-oxy fuels.

Ransom - so for a bike running 20 to 24# of boost you would run E85 instead of M5?  Is that because the power difference doesn't justify the hassle of methanol?

[donpearsall]

I have been researching this very same issue for my turbo Hayabusa bike. There seems to be a consensus that C85 is the best for blown engines, and C85 plus methanol/water injection is even better. That is what I am building my engine to run on as I have blown engines due to overheated intake air (and lack of tuning).

Don

[edinlr]

I have been researching this very same issue for my turbo Hayabusa bike. There seems to be a consensus that C85 is the best for blown engines, and C85 plus methanol/water injection is even better. That is what I am building my engine to run on as I have blown engines due to overheated intake air (and lack of tuning).

Don

I like the idea of the E85, but I would go ahead and pay the extra money for the race version as you are more assured of getting a quality product and the right octane.  I heard that E85 sometimes may only contain 50% ethanol and the octane can vary.  I want whatever I tune with to match what I will use on the track.

[TheBaron]

Here are a couple of videos I made during Covid for a FSAE team of engineering students that might shed light on the history and reasons when water injection is called for.

Enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAaQ0STRioo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knkgSYP3uMc&t=147s

Highest power potential with different fuels: Nitromethane/Methanol blend is #1

[Doc B.]

There's consumer grade E85 that you get at the gas pump, and there's race e85. The consumer stuff varies in content with the seasons. Race E85 is (or should be) a consistent 85% ethanol. The guy I buy from will test it to show the actual percentage before filling a jug. I also bought my own test kit to use next season. They are inexpensive and dirt simple to use.

[Stainless1]

As I said earlier, if you don't want to spend $18-20 a gallon there is an alternative to the variations in pump E85.  There are stations here that sell E98 for around $2-3 a gallon... I don't know what they put in it for the 2% but tastes pretty bad.  Then you just mix in the race gas of your choice.  I've used Sunoco 110 and last batch I used my leftover c16.  I've used a couple of different test kits, they all work. 
But hey... if you need to use expensive stuff I could sell ya some of mine for $10 a gallon.
 

[RansomT]

Question on difference bewtween M5 and M1.   M5 gives a slightly fatter TQ curve over M1, but by the time you are at peak HP, they are nearly the same.  If you want you could run race E85 and add some nitropropane to get the same results.

Yes, I would run 20-ish lbs boost over quality E85, just keep a tabs on the EGTs.

[stay`tee]

Question on difference bewtween M5 and M1.   M5 gives a slightly fatter TQ curve over M1, but by the time you are at peak HP, they are nearly the same.  If you want you could run race E85 and add some nitropropane to get the same results.

Yes, I would run 20-ish lbs boost over quality E85, just keep a tabs on the EGTs.

"Thankyou Sir",, there dosent seem to be much "real world" information out there on M5