Author Topic: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project  (Read 89887 times)

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Offline RichFox

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #240 on: September 29, 2019, 03:23:18 PM »
For a few years in the 70s I worked in a Plasma spray shop. Which I guess is this process. Or wire spray. And yes it is granular in varying degrees. And we were not trying to make nonslip surfaces. But it still is about the same surface as coarse sandpaper for the really coarse stuff. I would be surprised if it grips salt. Maybe if it is near concrete hard. When do you want to try your test wheels?

Offline Simspeed

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #241 on: September 29, 2019, 03:37:14 PM »
For a few years in the 70s I worked in a Plasma spray shop. Which I guess is this process. Or wire spray. And yes it is granular in varying degrees. And we were not trying to make nonslip surfaces. But it still is about the same surface as coarse sandpaper for the really coarse stuff. I would be surprised if it grips salt. Maybe if it is near concrete hard. When do you want to try your test wheels?
Hi Rich,
https://www.slipnot.com/what-is-slipnot/#!metal-surface-options From appearances the coating looks to be like course sand paper.  The mfg sites Underwriter Laboratory label as slip resistrant.  The minimum friction coefficient is listed as 0.8.  I don't see why it wouldn't grip the salt as well and any other tire given the same contact patch.  Thanks... Terry.

Not anytime soon on the test wheels Rich.  More likely we'd pay for the coating applied to someone else's drive wheels to see how well it worked for them. 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 04:18:13 PM by Simspeed »

Offline Simspeed

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #242 on: September 29, 2019, 03:47:25 PM »
Here's a colored cross section of the 3 piece wheel design I'm using for this study.

Offline 7800ebs

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #243 on: September 29, 2019, 04:30:19 PM »
Interesting product, it's designed to coat metal so you won't slip on metal. Stairs, road plates, etc..  I'm guessing that tires on road work plates are rubber. And shoes on metal steps are rubber like. So the product is probably a great surface for tires to run on. I'm a bit troubled with it being the tire. A small test section should be created by you, and tested. I personally believe you need contact patch to make any of this work. My partner who is very involved in the big show explained it perfectly. In drag racing tires need shear strength of the rubber to accelerate. That's why the large slicks. At Bonneville we are dealing with MOST often the shear strength of the salt. And that is why solid wheels don't work, contact patch. It's that simple. bob

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #244 on: September 29, 2019, 05:15:09 PM »
Rubber tires, even at high pressure deflect into a contact patch, metal doesn't. Therefore I would at least design your tires flat across with rounded edges rather than convex in cross section so there is at least some contact patch. I tend to agree with the others that rubber is required on the drive wheels.

Pete

Offline RichFox

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #245 on: September 29, 2019, 05:39:05 PM »
Here's a colored cross section of the 3 piece wheel design I'm using for this study.
But no one has wheels like yours to apply the coating to so that you can test it. I think that Bob's idea of making a small test piece might be best. I'm not sure if this is a serious discussion about a car that is proposed. Or Blue Sky thoughts on the possibilitys out there in LSR. I am sure the slipnot people can supply you with a test wheel if you send them something to spray. It needn't be a accurate model of your planned wheel. Just some thing you could use to test CF on the salt with. Could save an awful lot of time and money if it's not going to work.   

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #246 on: September 29, 2019, 05:46:12 PM »
Chet Herbert (my hero, by the way) had a car with aluminum wheels that had a very large contact patch -- the belly pan if I remember correctly.
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #247 on: September 29, 2019, 06:39:03 PM »
It seems to me, that even as an intellectual exercise you should prove your foundation before wasting time on things that don't work. To that end I propose that you build a test device for your wheels. I think a scooter or snowmobile would be a good starting point. Something with a centrifugal clutch. If you begin with a snowmobile you will need to modify it to accept a rear tire instead of the track. Either way you get a scooter tire and wheel  and machine a piece of aluminum to fit in the same place as the tire. Send it off to be slipnoted. Then take it to Speedweek with a scale and attach it to a car or truck and see if it will pull as well as the rubber tire. Or at least well enough to give you the acceleration you need. And you would have a scooter to ride around the pits to see what other people are doing.

Offline ronnieroadster

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #248 on: September 29, 2019, 07:09:52 PM »
It seems to me, that even as an intellectual exercise you should prove your foundation before wasting time on things that don't work. To that end I propose that you build a test device for your wheels. I think a scooter or snowmobile would be a good starting point. Something with a centrifugal clutch. If you begin with a snowmobile you will need to modify it to accept a rear tire instead of the track. Either way you get a scooter tire and wheel  and machine a piece of aluminum to fit in the same place as the tire. Send it off to be slipnoted. Then take it to Speedweek with a scale and attach it to a car or truck and see if it will pull as well as the rubber tire. Or at least well enough to give you the acceleration you need. And you would have a scooter to ride around the pits to see what other people are doing.

   You forgot to mention the scooter will need the proper BLM permit .
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #249 on: September 29, 2019, 07:43:01 PM »
There's always Lake Gardiner

Offline Elmo Rodge

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #250 on: September 29, 2019, 08:19:35 PM »
Just put a propeller on it. Problem solved.  :cheers:
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #251 on: September 29, 2019, 08:38:12 PM »
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!
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Offline Simspeed

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #252 on: September 30, 2019, 02:39:26 AM »
Interesting product, it's designed to coat metal so you won't slip on metal. Stairs, road plates, etc..  I'm guessing that tires on road work plates are rubber. And shoes on metal steps are rubber like. So the product is probably a great surface for tires to run on. I'm a bit troubled with it being the tire. A small test section should be created by you, and tested. I personally believe you need contact patch to make any of this work. My partner who is very involved in the big show explained it perfectly. In drag racing tires need shear strength of the rubber to accelerate. That's why the large slicks. At Bonneville we are dealing with MOST often the shear strength of the salt. And that is why solid wheels don't work, contact patch. It's that simple. bob
The contact patch of the wheel design I'm showing would be very similar to that of a rubber LSR tire.  The wheel would depress into the salt under weight such that the upward curve of the body and side radii would bear against the salt for added contact.  The side radii would also help to add directional stability that would not be present with a flat surface running side to side.  That was the intention anyway when the design was created.  Thanks... Terry

Offline Simspeed

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #253 on: September 30, 2019, 02:40:46 AM »
Rubber tires, even at high pressure deflect into a contact patch, metal doesn't. Therefore I would at least design your tires flat across with rounded edges rather than convex in cross section so there is at least some contact patch. I tend to agree with the others that rubber is required on the drive wheels.

Pete
Hey Pete... See my comment to Bob above about contact patch.  Thanks... Terry

Offline Simspeed

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Re: Simspeed UWD LSR Design Project
« Reply #254 on: September 30, 2019, 02:44:53 AM »
Here's a colored cross section of the 3 piece wheel design I'm using for this study.
But no one has wheels like yours to apply the coating to so that you can test it. I think that Bob's idea of making a small test piece might be best. I'm not sure if this is a serious discussion about a car that is proposed. Or Blue Sky thoughts on the possibilitys out there in LSR. I am sure the slipnot people can supply you with a test wheel if you send them something to spray. It needn't be a accurate model of your planned wheel. Just some thing you could use to test CF on the salt with. Could save an awful lot of time and money if it's not going to work.
I agree that testing must be done Rich.  My comment about coating someone else's wheels was aimed at simply testing to see if the SlipNOT product would offer usable traction on any aluminum wheel.  Obviously, wheels specific to the Simspeed design would have to be constructed and tested independently if the product showed promise in a nonspecific wheel test.  Thanks... Terry