Author Topic: Another question about fuel shutoff rule  (Read 10682 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8968
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2019, 12:03:04 PM »
Perhaps a redefinition of the Fuel class is required to separate Nitro from non nitro.  If you think about it, breaking the seal on a Gas class bike to run in fuel should require you to be tech'd as a nitro bike

I believe it requires a re-inspection for class change.... 
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Online Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2019, 05:03:39 PM »
"Perhaps a redefinition of the Fuel class is required to separate Nitro from non-nitro.  If you think about it, breaking the seal on a Gas class bike to run in fuel should require you to be tech'd as a nitro bike."

Let's not confuse the issue ? there is no Nitro class.  Fuel classes don't run sealed tanks.  They can run Gas, tho.  (Or maybe not ? forgot this is the BMST.)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 05:09:08 PM by Stan Back »
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Doc B.

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
    • Bottlehead Corp.
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2019, 12:01:16 AM »
Yes, you can run gas in the AMA fuel class at BMST. You still have to comply with the fuel class safety regs - fuel shutoff at handlebars, either electrical or mechanical.

Offline Frenchinjection

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
  • APS-BPS 750 Triumph Twin 775 . 152.35 record
    • Saltbike 775
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2019, 04:46:23 AM »
Hi Doc

Fuel shut-off at handlebars means what,?  A tap stopping the fuel getting where? Into the engine or out of the tank?  Or a switch disabling the power to an electric pump.  It is the definition of the details that is missing from the rules allowing interpretation which can lean to not being able to run.

Offline stay`tee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 613
  • "Kawasaki ZX12 Turbocharged"
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2019, 07:23:31 AM »
The way I read it is that the fuel/gasoline shut off is to stop the liquid from getting out of the tank,, reasoning is  that if the bike is on fire one has the ability to shut off the source,,

Fire sleeve is there to inhibit the source until the rider realizes that the machine is indeed on fire,,
 
The Lanyard is there to shut down the engine in the event that the rider parts company with the machine,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

Offline Peter Jack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3776
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2019, 09:51:55 AM »
For maximum safety common sense says to shut the fuel off coming out of the tank. Arguing to do the shut off any further down the line is obviously less safe. Why is anyone even trying to argue in the face of common sense?

Stay safe guys.

Pete

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13167
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2019, 10:41:40 AM »
PJ said:  "Why is anyone even trying to argue in the face of common sense?"

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline Doc B.

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
    • Bottlehead Corp.
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2019, 10:58:07 AM »
Sorry if I added to your frustration. I was responding to Stan Back about whether one can run gasoline in the fuel class at BMST. Hopefully you will hear from SCTA techs soon.

Offline Frenchinjection

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
  • APS-BPS 750 Triumph Twin 775 . 152.35 record
    • Saltbike 775
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2019, 11:21:57 AM »
Hi Peter, A 3-way valve after the fuel pump is an allowed fuel shut off.  It passes tech every time despite the fact it does not shut off the fuel at the tank, it just routes it around the system and back to the tank.  It is not at the tank and it is allowed.

Seldom, I am not trying to argue in the face of common sense I am trying to get common sense defined to reflect changing designs.  7.B.2.5 allows for interpretation as is specifically for the fuel class, (anything except event gas).  If the power is removed to EFI injectors the fuel is shut off from getting into the engine.  It just flows back to the tank in the same way as it is already allowed. i.e. like a 3-way valve after the pump prevents fuel getting into the engine on constant flow.  The difficulty is, how can you test/check this in tech?  If you had an electric pump, you could see or feel it's not running, if you had mechanical pump, then if the engine is stopped the pump is stopped. 

With respect to safety, if the bike is on fire, then stopping the fuel feeding the flames is a must.  Stopping the pump, injectors, sparks etc all need to occur.  A 3-way will not stop the fuel being pumped around your fuel system if you have a mechanical pump.  You would need the clutch, assuming it's not a slider, to stop the motor turning. 

It seems like I am just reiterating what I have said before with no meaningful discussion. 

Can define why OFF solenoids cannot be defined as fuel shut-offs?

Offline Vinsky

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2019, 08:41:18 PM »
Any guess how long a mechanical pump could survive without  any fuel circulating through it.
John

Offline Frenchinjection

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
  • APS-BPS 750 Triumph Twin 775 . 152.35 record
    • Saltbike 775
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2019, 04:01:12 AM »
Hi Vinsky.  Mechanical pump life is not the question, the fuel shut off in the rules is what I am trying to get discussed.

Offline gowing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2021, 07:17:21 PM »
Hi Doc

Fuel shut-off at handlebars means what,?  A tap stopping the fuel getting where? Into the engine or out of the tank?  Or a switch disabling the power to an electric pump.  It is the definition of the details that is missing from the rules allowing interpretation which can lean to not being able to run.

Old thread.... yeah I know, but pretty much the same question.

will the off-run-off switch killing power to an electric fuel pump pass muster for the fuel class?

Offline Doc B.

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
    • Bottlehead Corp.
Re: Another question about fuel shutoff rule
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2021, 11:56:30 AM »
Quote
will the off-run-off switch killing power to an electric fuel pump pass muster for the fuel class?

Yup as long as it is accessible without removing hand from bars. I have my fuel pump relay and my ignition (as well as my nitrous and fuel solenoids) wired thru a kill switch mounted on the clipon on the throttle side and then thru the lanyard switch mounted on the clutch side clipon, in series.