altered (special construction) M/C leagality

[jssport]

Thanks in advance,

 Just checking the current requirements for alt class.

 there are 4 criteria:

 - wheelbase over 68 inches
 - top of rear tire higher than seat
 - gas tank capacity under 1.32 gal
 - footpegs within 6 inches of axel

 Each bike must 3 of the 4 areas above.

 These rules are for bikes that are easily converted between modified and altered, as in just changing the swingarm from an extented unit to stock.

 A bike that has been constructed as a "special construction" that can not change class to modified without extensive modification do not have to meet the above 3 out of 4 criteria.

 My question is who or how do we determine what constitutes extensive modifications?

 Thanks,
 JimS

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Hey, Jim, I thought I'd let someone else respond to your query -- but since nobody has, I'll jump in and see how far I can get my size-14 boots into my mouth.  I don't have my rulebook here -- it's at the house -- so I'm going on memory only.

I don't think that the CURRENT rules require more than one of the criteria to be met to put a bike into "altered".  I know it USED to be three of the four, and maybe the "ease of conversion" situation you mention might be valid -- although I don't remember seeing that statement in print.

I think I can say (safely) that the idea of the "altered" class vs. "modified" class is that altered is for bikes that aren't streetable, while modified is for streetable bikes that are optimised for racing -- but still rideable on the street.  I think.  I think.

Extra long wheelbase, way rearset pegs, tiny gas tank, low seat -- any of those would make a bike less than great for street riding (although no doubt you can find bikes on the roads that have some or all of these attributes).  The attributes all have justifiable excuse for being on a race-only bike, though.

Did this elucidate the situation?  Did I miss your question's point?  If you want a hard answer I'd guess you'd best discuss with Russ O'Daly or Tom Evans (SCTA) or Keith Turk or Joe Timney (ECTA) the precise nature of your proposed mods and let them guide you.

[Dean Los Angeles]

Page 105, 7.G, SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION
A special construction frame is unlimited in design, except for the class requirement of this section. The Special Construction class is intended for purpose-built race bikes. This class includes factory produced road racing or any other racing ?works? models. Bikes in this class may have:
One or two engines
Engine displacement is unlimited
Seat base lower than the top of the rear tire with the rider seated on the bike
A fuel tank of any size
Forks or center hub steering permitted.
And other design items not permitted in the Modified Production class
A bike entered in the Special Construction Class cannot be entered as a Modified Production Class entry within the same racing season.

The rules for Modified Production were set up to allow you to run a production motorcycle with extensive modifications, but based on a production motorcycle.
The Special Construction class was designed for the all out racing bike that has NO roots in the production world. Think streamliner without the body.

The fact that the only bikes you see in either class are conventional motorcycles shows the lack of innovation by the participants. Running a MotoGP bike might get you a record, but it isn't the fastest you can do with the rules available to you in the special construction class.

[bbb]

mr. wennerberg tech'd my bike in this trim at an ECTA event in Sept that ran in APS1650BF/4. its hard to see in this pic, but the top of the rear tire is even with the seatpan and the bike is 69.5" wheelbase. I have a 1.2 gallon tank as well, but did not tech with it. rearsets have always been OEM position.

its streetable too.

[narider]

Page 105, 7.G, SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION
Bikes in this class may have:
Seat base lower than the top of the rear tire with the rider seated on the bike
A bike entered in the Special Construction Class cannot be entered as a Modified Production Class entry within the same racing season.

The fact that the only bikes you see in either class are conventional motorcycles shows the lack of innovation by the participants. Running a MotoGP bike might get you a record, but it isn't the fastest you can do with the rules available to you in the special construction class.

mr. wennerberg tech'd my bike in this trim at an ECTA event in Sept that ran in APS1650BF/4. its hard to see in this pic, but the top of the rear tire is even with the seatpan and the bike is 69.5" wheelbase. I have a 1.2 gallon tank as well, but did not tech with it. rearsets have always been OEM position.
its streetable too.

There are some differences in ECTA and SCTA's rules along these lines bbb. The 69.5" is what got you into the Altered class at Maxton. The ECTA seat  requirement as shown above is very different also, it is more liberal in that it allows you to be as low as the rims themselves(and takes both of them into effect). You will also not be banished from Modifed for that season, or even that event. And it has never required more then one disqualification from Modified to deem your base class as being Altered.

Dean, well said in your last paragraph above.

Jim, I'm sure you know it is the tech inspectors at the lowest levels at Maxton, but I would imagine it is the impound personel at Bonneville(?). You might consider asking who to send pics or questions to out there rather then general answers on an open forum. Doesn't SCTA have a motorcycle committee you can contact?  
And more importantly, why?.... Are you still racing?  
Todd

[JackD]

The tank size was taken from a long standing rule for class M bikes as a
 minimum size to establish it as a sit up type bike with other appropriate
restrictions and misapplied to class A.
Class M was never meant to be a class that was restricted to former
 street legal bikes but rather production based of the type that included
dirt and road race production bikes.
Look at the record book.
The misapplication of the maximum tank size for class A has no basis in
the history of the class and and has been demonstrated to be invalid
for a large fuel burner for example.
Russ stated here the rule originated with AMA before his time.
 That was and is wrong with examples printed here and we haven't seen him since.

[Nortonist 592]

If you are building an "A" [special construction] you don't need to go to a lot of trouble.  Take a stock frame and stick an engine from another manufacturer in it and viola' you're an "A".

[JackD]

The rules have dissolved to the special wishes of the rulers rather than the
consideration for the history or the future of the sport.

[JackD]

There are thousands of HD clone bikes produced that meet all the rule requirements for Production. Modified. and Class A as delivered less the required safety items that are common to all bike entries.
Does that make the rule look like a joke, or is it something or somebody else ?