Author Topic: Allowable fuels  (Read 9426 times)

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Offline manta22

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2019, 04:01:33 PM »
I think I heard an "Oh, that's not good" just before the bang....

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Pippi2

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Re: Allowable fuels-----> Corrections to BMST Rule Book Posted
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2019, 11:36:31 PM »
2. F. FUELS
Acceptable fuels include alcohol, methanol, ethanol, nitrous oxide, nitro-methane, hydrogen, diesel, gasoline. Violation of this fuels section is grounds for disqualification.
2.G. GASOLINE
A meet-approved vendor provides gasoline for purchase. The vendor will seal the tank after filling. If you chose not to purchase gasoline from the meet approved vendor, you will be required to run in the fuel class. Refueling shall take place in the designated area and tank re-sealed by an event official. Refueling shall only take place under the supervision of an event official.
Not allowed is the addition of power additives/altering agents. Allowed is the addition of engine lubrication to gasoline. When done, it must be in the presence of the event gasoline vendor or a scrutineer. The vendor will seal the tank after filling. Violation of this section will result in disqualification.
If nitrous oxide bottles are installed, you must run in fuel class. To be permitted to run in gas class, bottles, lines and solenoids shall be removed. Injectors shall be removed or capped.

Offline JimL

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2019, 07:39:16 PM »
Hydrogen...and an interesting memory.  With the smallest atom in the universe, hydrogen is tricky to store because it has to leak.  About 15 years ago I was asked to look at a strange engine problem, where a particular production engine was running on hydrogen (where the hydrogen is held in a molecular bond and "freed" from the storage tank with heat).

This was a four valve per cylinder engine and the forward intake valve on #2 or #3 cylinder would develop a clean crack on the upper edge of that valve.  No other valves were ever affected, not even in the same cylinder.

There were enough cases to realize "this is a real deal"!  (I remember a conversation about "how to order 100 long-blocks", and the whole project dropped off my radar.)

Never figured it out......not a clue.  Somehow, I find it comforting to know there are real mysteries in this world that maybe we aren't supposed to understand.   :cheers:

« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 07:55:03 PM by JimL »

Offline Doc B.

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2019, 09:55:13 PM »
Sounds like hydrogen embrittlement, maybe?

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2019, 11:39:44 PM »
Sounds like hydrogen embrittlement, maybe?
Can that happen without the metal becoming molten? I don't know but it is an interesting theory.  :? :? :?

Pete

Offline RaceEngineer

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Re: Allowable fuels-Hydrogen embrittlement
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2019, 08:32:48 AM »
Jack,

Yes hydrogen embrittlement can occur even if a metal is solid at high pressure or stress.


Offline TheBaron

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2019, 10:11:55 AM »
Example: chrome plating 4130 chrome-moly is a bad idea because of H2 embrittlement,,,,,polish and then clearcoat is the best way to "eyecandy" 4130 parts.

Robert "Smitty" Smith

Red Baron LSR

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2019, 11:29:35 AM »
Sounds like hydrogen embrittlement, maybe?
Can that happen without the metal becoming molten? I don't know but it is an interesting theory.  :? :? :?

Pete

Brain fade. I knew chrome plating 4130 tubing could cause hydrogen embrittlement but my failing mind didn't connect the dots.

This site is amazing for the knowledge it imparts.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2019, 08:05:33 AM »
As Dan Warner likes to say, "don't read into the rule book stuff that isn't there" or words like that. The rule says "Acceptable fuels INCLUDE..."  Doesn't say "exclude" anything. However an inspector may say otherwise. Anyway, I am pretty sure there is a precedent for propane. This article doesn't specifically say he used it at Bonneville but Ak Miller did use propane and the article is a good read about his life and history and at least suggests his use at the salt: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0606-ak-miller-history-best-hot-rodder/
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline Doc B.

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2019, 12:55:21 PM »
Functionally there is plenty of precedent for blowing propane with nitrous rather than gas. And good technical reasons to do so - runs cooler, mixes better, high octane, ease of installation, easy to acquire inexpensive pre-packaged fuel cartridges (torch cylinders). However BMST officials were kind enough to email me directly to let me know that propane would not be allowed this year.

"Propane might fall into "other propulsion" which we don't run at the BMST. A submitted rule change regarding propane would not pass the commission."

It's no biggie, my nitrous will just blow with gasoline this year. I get the notion of "if it's not in the rule book". If it's safety wire vs. a hose clamp or a fender that needs to be trimmed it's maybe worth the risk of being told no. But I decided it would suck to roll into impound and be told "your entire fuel system needs to be changed out in order to run". Particularly after officials already notified me directly as well as by Drew's post in this thread that propane won't fly at BMST. I'll just have to keep working on that hydrogen fusion powered bike for next year. What color hat will they choose for riders that achieve light speed? Blue on the front and red on the back, of course.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 12:57:16 PM by Doc B. »