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Author Topic: Allowable fuels  (Read 9447 times)

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Offline Doc B.

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Allowable fuels
« on: April 19, 2019, 03:50:58 PM »
Just looked over section 2F in the AMA supplementals -

 "alcohol, methanol, ethanol, nitrous oxide,
nitro-methane, hydrogen, diesel and any gasoline not purchased
from the meet-approved gasoline vendor."

No propane listed, but hydrogen is OK? Has someone actually run a land speed bike on hydrogen? Google struck out for me on that search. Is the omission of propane maybe just because no one has run propane before?
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Offline manta22

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2019, 06:57:42 PM »
Ford ran a hydrogen-powered car about 10 years ago- it had a fuel cell. It was exiled to the furthest point of the pit area.
Oh, the humanity!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2019, 07:25:09 PM »
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Offline Doc B.

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 12:05:46 PM »
Thanks guys, I did find some info about hydrogen powered land speed cars. It wasn't very clear from my post, but I'm really more curious as to why propane is not included in the allowable fuels at BMST. My hunch is that it's simply because no one ever tried to run it.
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2019, 01:11:48 PM »
Quote from: Doc B. on April 20, 2019, 12:05:46 PM
Thanks guys, I did find some info about hydrogen powered land speed cars. It wasn't very clear from my post, but I'm really more curious as to why propane is not included in the allowable fuels at BMST. My hunch is that it's simply because no one ever tried to run it.

probably because of low BTUs per pound or unit volume
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Offline tortoise

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2019, 02:51:55 PM »
Quote from: mtiberio on April 20, 2019, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: Doc B. on April 20, 2019, 12:05:46 PM
Thanks guys, I did find some info about hydrogen powered land speed cars. It wasn't very clear from my post, but I'm really more curious as to why propane is not included in the allowable fuels at BMST. My hunch is that it's simply because no one ever tried to run it.

probably because of low BTUs per pound or unit volume

BTUs/lb of propane is much higher than methanol, so that can't be right.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 02:55:05 PM by tortoise »
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Offline TrickyDicky

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2019, 03:55:24 PM »
Quote from: manta22 on April 19, 2019, 06:57:42 PM
Ford ran a hydrogen-powered car about 10 years ago- it had a fuel cell. It was exiled to the furthest point of the pit area.
Oh, the humanity!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

VBB-2 anyone?  303.025 mph in 2009.
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Offline Doc B.

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2019, 06:13:47 PM »
Propane injection seems fairly popular on diesel engines. The octane is relatively high, storage pressure is relatively low compared to nitrous or hydrogen. I ran generators on it in the 80s in an area where the fire marshall would not allow gasoline but did allow propane. Can't really see what might disqualify it. I guess somebody needs to submit a change to the rule book...
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2019, 10:53:12 PM »
Did the Blue Flame use some sort of gaseous fuel?
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Offline MAYOMAN

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2019, 09:56:06 AM »
The Blue Flame used LNG, liquefied natural gas (methane) as the fuel, combined with 95% hydrogen peroxide as the oxidizer. LNG is used for efficiently transporting natural gas in ships, etcetera, but rarely as a fuel in vehicles. Natural gas, however, has often been used for fleet vehicles on the road.
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Offline RogerL

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2019, 10:09:20 AM »
We use compressed natural gas in my 'liner. Ran 380 at of WOS last year. Shooting for 400 this year.
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Offline AHG

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2019, 05:38:40 PM »
Doc B,

1. Are you proposing to race a motorcycle at BMST using Propane?
2. Suggestions for BMST rules changes should be submitted in late Fall or early Winter.

Lastly, I'm always amused when a BMST motorcycle related question is asked,
and responses immediately veer off course into the car world.  :-)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 05:40:58 PM by AHG »
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Offline Malcolm UK

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2019, 05:09:23 AM »
The 2019 wording is posted on the BMST site and reads:

"2. F. FUELS Acceptable fuels include alcohol, methanol, ethanol, nitrous oxide, nitro-methane, hydrogen, diesel and any. Violation of this fuels section is grounds for disqualification."

What needs clarification is the first sentence, which appears unfinished with "…. diesel and any."

Why is a Brit interested? Because at the Straightliners/UKTA events held in Britain, we allow bike racers who have been to or are going to BMST to run on our airfield and beach tracks with machines built to the AMA Bonneville rules.
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Offline donpearsall

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2019, 11:28:01 AM »
Oops, I guess that rule section slipped through the rulebook editor. The 2018 rulebook reads:

"Acceptable fuels include alcohol, methanol, ethanol, nitrous oxide, nitro-methane, hydrogen, diesel and any gasoline not purchased from the meet-approved gasoline vendor. Violation of this fuels section is grounds for disqualification.

My guess is that since this is a typo, the officials will revert back to the 2018 rules rather than allow you to use "any...".

Don
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 11:30:54 AM by donpearsall »
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Offline Doc B.

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Re: Allowable fuels
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2019, 01:57:50 PM »
Damn, guys, I saw that typo too and was gonna try to use it to my advantage! Thanks for responding, Drew. My plan was to run gas with nitrous oxide and propane injection. I will indeed submit a suggested rule change for 2020 after this year's event. Meantime I'll figure what to do for this season. Guess it's time to start generating hydrogen gas and storing it. What could possibly go wrong? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efsos9xFwGw
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