M/C leather protection/armour rules

[jssport]

What sort of armour is now required at Maxton for bikes over 175mph.

 Is the DE (i think that's what it's called) grade good enough?

 Where is it required? back only? elbows and knees? hips and forearms?

 I find the armour that came in my Teknic Silverstone suit somewhat limits my movements, which I think is a safety issue.

 thanks,
 JimS

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I don't know the precise details of the body armor requirements, but I will comment on the restrictive nature of it...by stating that while mine does, indeed, sort of limit my flexibility while I'm on the bike -- I don't need to move very much while I'm on the bike.  Other than wiggling my butt into position for a tuck, and maybe moving my left toes to shift gears -- I am unmoving while going down the race course.  I don't need flexibility - liike perhaps I might if I were road racing and needed to hang off here, move up to weight the front wheel there, etc, etc.

The armor in my leathers is a solid one-piece in the back (attached by hook-n-loop fastener strips), and hard pads in hips, forearms, shoulders, and knees. I don't remember the ratings (?) of the armor -- I do remember that I was offered a small variety of choices when I bought the leathers (they came with armor installed) and I chose the good stuff when I ordered.

So -- how will limited flexibility be a safety issue in land speed racing?  Maybe I'm missing something here. . .

[equimania]

What sort of armour is now required at Maxton for bikes over 175mph.
 Is the DE (i think that's what it's called) grade good enough?
 Where is it required? back only? elbows and knees? hips and forearms?

The rule book does not specify a grade, other than to say "special protective armor, as produced by a recognized manufacturer, with a minimum coverage at the elbows, knees, shoulders, hips and back."

Presumably the recognizd manufacturer does not include Mattel.  CE level 3 certified is probably the best you can get, but so far the ECTA has not mandated any particular certification.

BTW, I'm just some guy with a rule book in hand tellling you what the words of the rule book say.  As with any question of interpetation of the rules, don't consider any answer official unless you hear it from the ECTA officials.  If you want an answer to use as a basis to spend your hard-earned cash, you should probably email your question to Joe Timney (ECTA President) or the motorcycle committee, whose email addresses you can get from the contacts page on the ECTA website.

MM

[jssport]

>>>>>>>>>>.
So -- how will limited flexibility be a safety issue in land speed racing?
>>>>>>>>>>.

 Well, imho,.....

 limited flexibility equals less control,

 less than total control equals not as safe

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I can't say as I agree with your concept that there's much of a reduction in available body movement to use in controlling a land speed bike -- when wearing leathers with mandated body armor.  

At Bonneville there's very little need for movement away from the basic seating position, so restrictions haven't affected me -- even if I were to admit that I feel restricted.  I've had the opportunity to do some steering and other  rider inputs (other than tuck and twist the throttle) while making a run -- side wind gusts, mis-adjustments in suspension and alignment, engine failure - and I haven't suffered because of limited ability to move.

At Maxton there's a REQUIREMENT to do some "steering" - because of the slight bend in the road soon after leaving the line, and also if the rider chooses to take the long shut down -- and again, I haven't felt restricted.

Don't the road racers wear armor?  And aren't they hanging off to corner, sitting up and moving forward to brake, twisting around to look over a shoulder to see who's right behind -- and they manage these moves.

Now my caveat:  I've only been over 200 mph on a bike a dozen or so times, and have only made a hundred or so passes on the race bike -- maybe I have been fortunate and just haven't had those bad times when I'll regret not having more flexibility/more "control".  Limited flexibility may  equal less control, indeed -- but so far it hasn't done so for me.  I hope it continues this way for all of us.

[Rick Roberts]

I'm willing to give up a little mobility for more protection if I ever need it.  For me even with the slight steering required at Maxton, mobility isn't a problem and it was not an issue at Bonneville. That's my experience, but IMHO I don't think the slight restriction in mobility is worth a reduction in rider protection.

[jssport]

Ok...  but there's a huge difference in roadracing -vs- lsr.

 My suit is a roadracer suit and is built as such. In roadracing most seem to be in a crouched position in a fairly stock seating position. Elbows are tucked in toward the chest, and riders get over the tank when piloting turns and ess's. P/P and modified class bikes seem to retain this stock seating position. On my altered bike I am much more streched out, my arms and shoulders are reaching for the bars pressing against the armour which is designed for the scruntched (is that a word?) crouched position.

 This is the difference for me.

 I understand the need for for rules regulating safety, some would try run in swimsuits with legs hanging off the bike without it, and I imagine there is also a insurance liability concern also.

 I'll be OK with it, I just don't think more is always better or safer.

 JimS

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Quote:  "Ok... but there's a huge difference in roadracing -vs- lsr.

My suit is a roadracer suit and is built as such. In roadracing most seem to be in a crouched position in a fairly stock seating position. Elbows are tucked in toward the chest, and riders get over the tank when piloting turns and ess's."

No, the roadracers I've seen are moving all over their bikes -- like I said in my note, above.  They are certainly not staying in a crouched position.  
They're crouched (tucked) part of the time, but then they're here, they're moving to there, and so on.

Yes, a production class or modified class land speed bike may be similar in seating accomodations to a roadrace bike -- but moving around just doesn't happen much.  My bike has run in both modified and altered, and I move some, that's for sure.  I've got some room to move forward and back -- when at Maxton I sit as far forward as I can in the early gears to put more weight on the front - to reduce wheelies.  Then I scoot back in the seat to get more aero and add weight to the back tire as drag resistance begins to overtake contact patch ability to transfer hp without tirespin.  And sure enough, my arms are stretched out quite a bit when I'm way back in the seat.  BUT  - at high speed I sure don't intend to do much steering input!  So I don't need lots of steering flexibility then.  And I got my leathers made from measurements taken while I was in that tuck -- so I can all the room I need to control the bike.

If I had pegs set way back (as the altered rules allow but don't require, so I don't) -- then I'd consider whether the leathers trousers needed to be constructed with that leg position in mind.

I'm not saying "more" (as in "I just don't think more is always better or safer." , I'm saying better -- I've got my protective gear designed for me and my application.  It's available to all of us at a price that's quite reasonable -- and (I hope) the resulting safety garb provides me with increased safety under all conditions I'll experience while on the race bike.

[racer x]

I have a two piece joe rocket leather. It has plastic zippers  and nylon joints under the arms and so forth. I am running in a class under 125 mph . I will get a one piece if I have to but time is running out. Can I run this setup ? Or mail order something I hope will fit? Help !

[narider]

I have a two piece joe rocket leather. It has plastic zippers  and nylon joints under the arms and so forth. I am running in a class under 125 mph . I will get a one piece if I have to but time is running out. Can I run this setup ? Or mail order something I hope will fit? Help !

As long as it's a zip together race suit you will be fine for ECTA.
Feel free to send a picture or post a link to the suit in question if you'd like further verification though.
Todd

[Stainless Two]

Using high density closed cell foam is pretty much a standard in the road race industry.  The pieces come "one size fits all" and usually slip into a pocket designed to hold them.  If you are having restriction issues with the pads, why not just trim them like i have done to custom fit them to your particular stance and body?  Granted, most road race leathers are sewn into a more traditional crouched stance, but have you explored flat tracker leathers?  They seem to be a little more flexible to me

[racer x]

Thanks for the tip.I did not know they even made flat track leather. I think what I have will be OK till I can get my 250cc bike up to 175 mph