Author Topic: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build  (Read 17778 times)

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Offline ProjectROTM

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Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« on: December 30, 2018, 07:03:24 AM »
Hi everyone,

I have been hugely inspired by the usual things (Worlds fastest Indian etc.) and loved a series that was on a few years ago in the UK documenting a number of British bike builders and their journey to Bonneville. I know a few of them are on this site as that was how I first came across landracing.com

While I will likely only be running my bike in UK land speed events I thought this would be a good place to start my build thread as there is a colossal amount of experience and knowledge here that I would be stupid not to try and tap into.

I am going to document the project in video, the first of which can be seen below.

https://youtu.be/YF-VxQccAak

ProjectROTM

Offline thefrenchowl

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2018, 08:31:46 AM »
Sadly, most of the UK speed trials events are run by a guy I'd rather not talk to or talk about  :dhorse: : O ( ...

Still, if I had an English bike, it would have to be a Velocette... So much like Harley-Davidson on numerous points of views... Family set up, weird engineering of German descent, slow changes and a race history equal to none despite their small size. Friend of mine in France had a Mk VII KTT in the 70s, it had collected a silver replica at the 1938 TT riden by Roger Loyer, what a bike and noise!!!



So, good luck on your project and tell us more on your bike, the MAC had a long life and the name covers a lot of variations...

Patrick
Flat Head Forever

...What exactly are we trying to do here?...

Offline ProjectROTM

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2018, 11:44:43 AM »
Thanks Patrick. That Velocette looks beautiful!

I am very new to this so haven’t had chance to make any friends or enemies yet :-D but I won’t ask about the organiser.

Would your bike be a supercharged flat head Harley that I remember seeing at the VMCC festival of 1000 bikes at Mallory a few years ago?

ProjectROTM

Offline thefrenchowl

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2018, 12:19:55 PM »
Yep, that's the one and only, but now retired...



The KTT MkVII picture above is just generic, I don't know where my friend's one is these days, he sold it along time ago...

Patrick
Flat Head Forever

...What exactly are we trying to do here?...

Offline ProjectROTM

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 07:59:42 AM »
Yes, that's the one. I remember thinking it looked awesome.

If i have managed to do it correctly here are a couple of shots of the bike in its current form.







Regards,

Project ROTM

Offline comet

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 08:18:43 AM »
Good luck with the build on that Velo, they are certainly decent bikes to start with.
I look forward to seeing how you develop it and wish you success with the build. It should be fun ( most of the time ;) )

John

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 10:28:13 AM »
Burt Munro raced a Velocette.

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 10:37:06 AM »
Stuart Hooper in Australia can tell you all you want to know about the World's Fastest Velocette.

http://www.worldsfastestvelocette.com/

Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline ProjectROTM

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 01:51:21 PM »
Thank you all for your input.

It seems my IT skills aren't quite up to scratch. I will try one more time with the photos.





Regards,

Project ROTM

Offline ProjectROTM

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2019, 07:00:29 PM »
I have now uploaded the first video on the bike.

I would welcome any expertise or suggestions on the exhaust routing and trying to reduce the frontal area. I think this is going to be very important as the bike is only 350cc.

https://youtu.be/A0ZRUQXUtqM

Project ROTM

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2019, 11:55:27 PM »
That looks like a fun project.  Thanks for posting the video.

Offline thefrenchowl

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 05:53:05 AM »
Hi, ROTM,

I would fit the seat further back, its end right in the rear axle vertical and lift your rear set to make room for the standard exhaust pipe. As high as you can where you can still shift/brake. This will allow your knees to be at quite an angle for a touch of ""allowed"" streamlining.

For a 350cc, you can look up at exhaust length pipe calcs on the web, but part of the calcs is dependent on your cam timing, the exhaust opening phase angle before BDC. Contrary to general belief, the higher the better, nearly all 4 stroke race bikes have more than 90 degrees there and some more than 110 degrees.

Then your max revs obviously.

As a rule of thumb, for a 350/400cc, 1"1/2 ID pipe, about 36" long from valve head to end of pipe.

30 to 45 degrees slash cut at the end of the straight pipe will act as very small megaphone, make a nicer noise and slightly improve your torque curve. Since you're probably like me with minimum funds, gear box new set is out of the question, so, yes, power at top is important, but good torque will help you be able to gear the bike higher via rear sprockets.

I don't know if the inner dimms are that common between MAC and Viper/Venom/Thruxton, but if yes, a look at their camshafts/followers will be an eye opener!!!

Patrick
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 05:58:06 AM by thefrenchowl »
Flat Head Forever

...What exactly are we trying to do here?...

Offline ProjectROTM

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2019, 02:17:18 PM »
Thanks Wobblywalrus, I have been following your Go Dog, Go thread for a long time. It is full of really useful info.

Thefrenchowl, I really appreciate your advice. I am a novice at this.

I have an M17-8 cam (used in the Venom & Viper) which I will compare to the standard one. I think I will have to walk a fine line with CR, timing and valve to valve and valve to piston clearance.

36" seems very short for the exhaust, it is about 38" in its current form. Once I have looked into the cam specs further I will carry out the calculations to define the theoretical best length. The MAC engine is a long stroke engine so RPM will be quite modest so I would expect to need a slightly longer exhaust (compared to a 350 Manx etc.)

Regards,

Project ROTM

Offline panic

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 08:45:34 AM »
Earlier exhaust opening effects:
reduces the duty cycle
exhaust is louder
strengthens the pulse returning to the chamber

If you have a choice of internal box ratios, consider the closest 3-4 shift (smallest RPM drop) as a priority

Offline ProjectROTM

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Re: Project Return of the MAC - Vintage 350cc Velocette build
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2019, 07:29:20 AM »
Thank you all for your input so far. This is exactly why I joined this forum, to try and borrow some experience (which I am definitely lacking).

I have done some calculations this morning and the exhaust length is coming our in the region of 34" based on the anticipated cam timing. This is shorter than my gut feeling, but shows thefrenchowl knows his stuff.