Author Topic: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion  (Read 5434 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mc2032

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
  • Age: 56
  • Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
  • Reliability and performance are highly overrated.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2019, 09:06:31 PM »
A few pictures from Wednesday evening work night.  Broke the bike down, added the swingarm and mounted it on the dyno.  Ran out of time to make any pulls but did run the bike up in 1st gear just to make sure it didn't jump out of the thing.  Yes it does look a little sketchy but I think it will work.  the axle is really beefy, the carrier bearings are robust.  the weak link will probably be the bike and/or operator.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 09:10:54 PM by mc2032 »
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline salt27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
  • Age: 62
  • Location: S.W. Orygun
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2019, 09:28:23 PM »
Your bike is just begging for a set of wheels with tires inside of pvc pipe as in drift trike.   :-o

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7260
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Near Furley and Kechi KS
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2019, 10:30:27 PM »
Pic proved it's a Harley.... only pissed a little on the floor...  :roll: 
I told Ross we could pull the wheels off one of the trailers and let him ride it around the block.... Axles are now 5 on 5 and spun smoothly... I was impressed this idea worked... so far  :-o
 :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline Koncretekid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia & Lafayette, Co.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2019, 06:41:19 PM »
Looks scary!  Might want a substantial chain guard.

I'm wondering how those Dynamite absorbers deal with a few hundred horsepower of heat?
  
Tom
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 06:45:17 PM by Koncretekid »
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline mc2032

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
  • Age: 56
  • Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
  • Reliability and performance are highly overrated.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2019, 10:43:20 PM »
No pictures, maybe tomorrow on dyno day no. 2.  Koncrete Kid, trust me the set up works, beyond robust, not scary at all.  Had a few hickups, pinched the cam case vent line, pressurized the crankcase and backed up the turbo drain line.  Two or three counties around Wichita will be mosquito free for awhile.  But beyond that, it was fairly successful.  Tomorrow hopefully will be a few full pulls to check AFR and timing and see if we can wring a bit more out of the bike from last year.  Again, Don thanks for the swingarm.  Oh, and I cannot thank Stainless enough for his help and expertise.  More to follow.
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7260
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Near Furley and Kechi KS
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2019, 10:49:50 PM »
The absorbers are good to 1000, and have dynoed many times under 200 successfully.   at From my experience with this one, you can't overheat it unless you are back to backing multiple times at high HP.  The limit is well withing the capability of the bike.
I don't think the chain will grab anyone unless they stand behind it.... of course I have my fingers crossed.
We did a little shake down work this evening, found some weak spots in the bike and the trike... fixed with cotter pins and a the torque wrench
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline mc2032

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
  • Age: 56
  • Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
  • Reliability and performance are highly overrated.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2019, 01:53:04 PM »
Had a semi successful dyno day at Bob's (Stainless') this weekend.  The dyno swingarm concept works.  It took everything we could throw at it (granted it was with a tired old sportster but none the less).  The dyno has an internal suspension heavy enough to support a full sized vehicle.  The bike is pretty light weight and did not compress/load the dyno modules so we had a bit of vibration (minimal to no walking) on the modules.  Also, the dyno seems to not like Harley style ignition/rpm signals.  we could not get a "clean" rpm signal (was fairly jumpy/erratic) and the dyno was chasing it and never really would settle down (I defer to Bob for the correct answers).  We did dial in the timing (full in at 4500-5000, when was the last time to set timing at 5k?).  We ran out of race gas at about the same time to call it quits for the day.  Will finish up tuning later in the week or on the weekend.  Cannot thank Bob enough for his wisdom and mentorship (and the use of his shop!).  More to follow.
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline mc2032

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
  • Age: 56
  • Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
  • Reliability and performance are highly overrated.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2019, 10:24:31 AM »
6-22-19 update.  Spent part the day at Stainless' dyno cell.  Had a few issues/hurdles but eventually got the dyno to talk to the bike's ignition (RPM) and made a couple of successful runs to dial in fuel and timing.  Dyno's AFR/O2 system was off line so we used the onboard AEM failsafe gauge and determined it was suspect as well.  So, being old, we went old school and just read the plugs like you should.  Posted a picture of the last run, 10ish psi boost, 32 deg timing, good fuel volume and ratio.  Remember this is a spare parts motor, nothing special or exotic.  I am happy with 125 hp and 100 ft pounds of torque in first gear.  Round three scheduled for later today, maybe play w/ fuel and timing or possible swap carbs and try e85.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 01:26:16 PM by mc2032 »
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline Sporty Dan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
  • Location: Walla Walla, WA
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2019, 12:03:28 PM »
Looks good, Ross. I like how the curves are still going up at 6500. Let us know what it does on the E85.

Offline mc2032

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
  • Age: 56
  • Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
  • Reliability and performance are highly overrated.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2019, 12:55:05 PM »
Pictures of the plugs, sorry I could not get a go0d shot down and in of the insulator.  Little bit of Harley/two valve trivia, plugs will read lean one side and rich the other.  Plug is between the valves and the intake charge flows across the plug.  No joy on the e85.  Seems like all the local outlets have gone dark on blending ethanol at custom percentages.  Will continue looking.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 01:08:39 PM by mc2032 »
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline maj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Vic Australia
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2019, 04:29:58 PM »
Ross are you chilling the O2 sensor with the alky fuels ?
Can you get hold of a 2 ch EGT  ? one in each pipe will help during the dyno runs and also be real handy on the salt

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4957
  • Age: 66
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2019, 12:13:08 AM »
Sunoco sells E85 race fuel.

Offline mc2032

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
  • Age: 56
  • Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
  • Reliability and performance are highly overrated.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2019, 08:25:39 AM »
Dunno if there is a Sunoco vendor locally but may reach out to the local roundy round guys to see if any of them sell/know where to buy.  May pick up a gallon or two of flex fuel (did a drive by and the yellow handled pump sticker said 51-83%) and use Stainless' Quick Fuel glass tube thingie to check what percentage it really is.  Have been happy with the 110 leaded race gas results so far.  But the shop was a pleasant 75-80 deg. F yesterday.  Bonneville in August, 100+ deg. F mid afternoon?
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7260
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Near Furley and Kechi KS
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2019, 08:36:09 AM »
The O2 sensor on the dyno died... tried several, no joy, I will call to see if I need to send the box in for testing... the readout shows no output...

The motor on the other hand is getting in the range... 
 I think the cooler fuels will be better in the heat.  More to  follow
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline mc2032

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
  • Age: 56
  • Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
  • Reliability and performance are highly overrated.
Re: Ethanol/Methanol/E85 Carb Conversion
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2019, 07:40:01 PM »
Stopped off at the Gas n' Sip after work to pick up a gallon or two of locally sourced E85.  Yellow handle's tag said 51 to 83% ethanol.  Stainless has a Quick Fuel E85 test rig and four or five tests verified almost 90% ethanol content (see below).  So, I am going to go back tomorrow and fill up a jug hoping it still tests as good.  We have a modified carb, a lathe and drill bits to hog out main jets and a test mule still mounted on the dyno.  Have no idea if the AEM fail safe gauge will be compatible with ethanol or even register a number.  Fuel pump and pressure regulator are supposed to be alcohol compliant.  Next dyno day will be on corn squeeezings.  Any advice or insights gladly accepted between now and Thursday or Friday.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 09:31:08 PM by mc2032 »
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.