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Author Topic: Motorized Bicycle on 130 Club Course, questions.  (Read 4719 times)
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augidog
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2018, 10:12:23 PM »

They have those reclining bike thingies shocked with pedals out the front, there's nothing that says you can't stick em out the back! The power stroke on the pedal would have a weight advantage.
  Sid.
 
Recumbent bikes are perfect candidates for lsr. The possibilities, when building a lsr motorized bicycle from the ground up, are endless. Our challenge is/was working with the bike I already have. It's way easy to build a bike around an engine compared to making an engine fit an existing bike. For me, that's always been the fun part.

There's going to be a "paced bicycle" entry at WOS this year.  Denise Korenek (Mueller), who holds the women's record of 147mph, is going after the men's record of 167mph. Of interest is that those very-high-geared but simple bicycles are built using front dragster wheels and tires.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 10:34:30 PM by augidog » Logged

"Get a bicycle, you will not regret it. If you live." Mark Twain (1884)
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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2018, 12:50:20 AM »

How is there even a women's record? There is no gender separation in LSR!
  Sid.
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« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2018, 08:49:25 AM »

Augidog:

Interesting conversation. At one point, I was heavily involved in bicycle racing (mostly track) and there were two arguments that, to my satisfaction, have not been resolved. One is tire size. Sprinters say 700c tires are best for top speed while 650c is better for acceleration at least to 30 mph. Then, there are LSR bicycles that use even smaller diameter wheels. Granted, LSR bikes are motor paced but they accelerate slowly and if sprinters are correct, one would think larger wheels/tires would be used. The reason could be as simple as available tires suitable for high speed on a bicycle. All I know is I was consistently faster in a pursuit event on 650c than I was on 700c.

The second unresolved issue is crank arm length but that is not for this website.

John
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 08:51:49 AM by ggl205 » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2018, 09:42:55 AM »

Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
  Sid.
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augidog
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« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2018, 10:12:04 AM »

How is there even a women's record? There is no gender separation in LSR!
  Sid.
it's an athletic endeavor, not a Motorsport.


* denise-mueller.jpg (42.13 KB, 960x540 - viewed 61 times.)
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augidog
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« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2018, 10:20:58 AM »

Augidog:

Interesting conversation. At one point, I was heavily involved in bicycle racing (mostly track) and there were two arguments that, to my satisfaction, have not been resolved. One is tire size. Sprinters say 700c tires are best for top speed while 650c is better for acceleration at least to 30 mph. Then, there are LSR bicycles that use even smaller diameter wheels. Granted, LSR bikes are motor paced but they accelerate slowly and if sprinters are correct, one would think larger wheels/tires would be used. The reason could be as simple as available tires suitable for high speed on a bicycle. All I know is I was consistently faster in a pursuit event on 650c than I was on 700c.

The second unresolved issue is crank arm length but that is not for this website.

John
ultimately, cranks, sprockets, and wheels are levers, and the final ratio, from the pedal to the road, is the only one that matters, at least on paper. In real life, rolling resistance is a factor. I am not very knowledgeable about wheel & tire sizes, widths, and resistance...I only know I love a nice 26" bicycle, I especially love mine after I extended the stays.

The only reason I found out that paced bicycles use dragster wheels is because I was like "wait a minute, how come THEY get to go so fast and I'm limited to 60mph?"


* Close-up-of-just-Denises-bike-DSC_5396-800x533.jpg (82.81 KB, 800x533 - viewed 69 times.)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 10:24:33 AM by augidog » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2018, 10:46:45 AM »

Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
  Sid.

my father raced the family Pontiac station wagon at Alton (Illinois) Dragway in the 1960's and figure-8 at Riverside Park Agawam MA in the '70's...I got the bug, but I don't have the budget. This entire adventure, 3 guys, a bike built mostly with stuff we already owned, fees, accommodations, gas, food...a bit over a grand each, total. Good luck even driving a bonafide LSR vehicle onto the trailer for that much, eh? I bet you stopped adding up receipts a long time ago.

If I ever hit the lottery, I absolutely know what I'm going to waste it all on  grin
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 10:53:01 AM by augidog » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2018, 10:53:00 AM »


The International Human Powered Vehicle Association record --- that's not motor-paced, just a guy pedaling the damned thing, stands at 85.71 mph.
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« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2018, 10:59:02 AM »


The International Human Powered Vehicle Association record --- that's not motor-paced, just a guy pedaling the damned thing, stands at 85.71 mph.
no kidding! I'm not really a huge bicycling nut, but am impressed by some of these accomplishments.

My build is really about how much can I squeeze out of a single-speed 50cc?

The reason we are running, besides the fun and challenge, is to raise awareness for our Honorary Sponsor, The George A Wyman Memorial Project.

George was the first person to cross the Continent on a motorized vehicle of any kind, a 200cc 1.25hp belt-drive "Motor Bicycle," in 1903. The non-profit Project is marking his route by placing sponsored bronze plaques and metal road signs wherever possible.

Our plaque is in Ogden UT, at The Union Grill, and we will be celebrating it's placement after World of Speed.


* imagejpeg_0.jpg (58.21 KB, 750x422 - viewed 61 times.)

* 24323_-_528.png (194.56 KB, 750x574 - viewed 58 times.)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 11:19:11 AM by augidog » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2018, 11:29:37 AM »

That's really neat!

I wonder how available gas was in Utah in 1903 he had to have oil shipped in.
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« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2018, 11:45:51 AM »

That's really neat!

I wonder how available gas was in Utah in 1903 he had to have oil shipped in.
he shipped supplies and parts ahead during the entire trip. He may mention availability of fuel in his journal. He wrote it in 5 installments for "The Motorcycle Magazine." Our non-profit forum hosts a copy here, along with digitized copies of the original magazines: http://motor-assisted-bicycling.1062526.n5.nabble.com/George-A-Wyman-1st-Across-America-f5710342.html
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« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2018, 11:54:17 AM »

Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
  Sid.


Sid, think about grinding wheel diameters and what you need to do when the wheel gets smaller.

John
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augidog
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« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2018, 12:00:15 PM »

Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
  Sid.


Sid, think about grinding wheel diameters and what you need to do when the wheel gets smaller.

John
also, "crank" means different things to bicycles and engines.
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« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2018, 12:05:29 PM »


The International Human Powered Vehicle Association record --- that's not motor-paced, just a guy pedaling the damned thing, stands at 85.71 mph.

89.59 mph  cheers cheers cheers

http://www.aerovelo.com/
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« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2018, 12:19:47 PM »

"ultimately, cranks, sprockets, and wheels are levers, and the final ratio, from the pedal to the road, is the only one that matters, at least on paper. In real life, rolling resistance is a factor. I am not very knowledgeable about wheel & tire sizes, widths, and resistance...I only know I love a nice 26" bicycle, I especially love mine after I extended the stays."

Augidog, when a human becomes the engine, I think other variables come into play. Just like the long rod, short rod argument, bicycle racers argue over long crank vs short crank. So, what do I think causes the argument? Probably confusion between spindle speed vs pedal speed. Even the best trained athlete has a sweet spot where they can perform at their best. In cycling, it is the maximum rpm one can maintain at the maximum watts produced for any given distance. So, rpm (cadence) is watched carefully. But what is happening out at the pedal? Using the grinding wheel example, a 20" wheel will travel farther and faster circumferentially than a 10" wheel. This is why grinding machine operators have to increase spindle rpm to maintain the same stock removal rate as the wheel wears. Now, if a longer crank forces the pedal to travel faster per revolution than a short one, does the rider have to generate more power to do it? Will this increase demand on the riders cardio? I maintain that it does, it almost has to.
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