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Author Topic: UK Lakester build G/GL  (Read 105352 times)

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Offline 7707

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #480 on: February 13, 2020, 04:59:06 PM »
John. Remember rules for safety are a minimum. I have seen a driveshaft break and I tell you it made a real mess. A piece of steel flapping around at X rpm can destroy anything near it. Over engineered is safer.
Current class record holder (A/BFRMR) at 258.679mph and i?m Just trying to go fast!

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #481 on: February 13, 2020, 10:08:02 PM »
John, if you use grade 5 3/ 8 bolts and nuts your welded tabs will give up before you pop a bolt.  Keep going you are building a great lakester.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #482 on: February 14, 2020, 02:48:26 AM »
Thanks Geoff, Stainless

If that prop shaft starts flapping around and hurts my containment shield I will be very cross; apart from the fact the 1/4" wall tube cost more to courier than to buy it has been a lot of graft to get it to this stage - the prop shaft on the other hand only took an email and a week later it magically appeared.

I was planning to get the fuel tank made in something with a slightly lower leak rate than the fibreboard version but the guy I spoke to has not come back to me after two weeks - how do these places stay in business?
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline 7707

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #483 on: February 14, 2020, 04:21:58 PM »
If you need an aluminium tank welded up contact : Nick Davies at I C E Automotive. They are based at Silverstone and are top class guys. Nick and Rob are my main crew guys on 7707.
Current class record holder (A/BFRMR) at 258.679mph and i?m Just trying to go fast!

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Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #484 on: February 25, 2020, 10:18:48 AM »
With the fuel tank mocked up (and now being made) it seemed like a good time to think about fuel lines and as importantly finding a home for the pump and filters.

The entire assembly will be removable as a unit once complete.
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #485 on: February 25, 2020, 10:29:43 AM »
I now have a natural platform for the fire bottle mounts, BUT, all the literature says they should not be mounted nozzle forwards as in a head on the contents will surge forward and the dip tube will be unable to pickup.

Is there any prohibition to aligning them nozzle forward as in reality a head on is less likely than a spin or a barrel roll and apart for the short period when a chute blossoms (and I am thinking I will be too busy then to pull fire handles) there isn't much deceleration (unless it goes nose in during an endo).

The forward location suits me better for many reasons. There will be two 10 lb bottles side by side.

I found a pic of a Seth Hammond Lakester front suspension area and that has a bottle lying flat with the nozzle forwards which makes me think it is not so much of an issue on the salt?
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #486 on: February 25, 2020, 11:44:06 AM »
John,
Good to see good progress on your lakester. Looking at your fuel pump set up it appears that you may be planning to connect the inlet port of the pump to the filter that is to the right of it. You may want to rethink the use of a banjo fitting on the pump inlet and especially if you plant to draw fuel through an inlet filter. The filter should be larger and absolutely with a filter element not smaller than 40 micron, 60 would even be better. Do not use any sort of paper or even fiberglass element in the inlet filter and the inlet line size should be min. of -8. It also looks like you may be mounting the pump above the bottom of your fuel cell which means it will not only have to suck through a filter it will have to lift fuel from the cell also, this could also make you pump lose it's prime. As I have said many times pumps make pressure the do not like to suck. I used the same Bosch pump as you on my lakes roadster and my pump was mounted below the thank and it had a very large filter with a coarse stainless still screen for the inlet. All plumbing was -8. On the inlet side the pump needs as much help as possible.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline ggl205

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #487 on: February 25, 2020, 12:44:40 PM »
John:

How you locate fire bottle heads has to do with what type of bottles you have. I believe Fire Fox uses a bladder that collapses when discharged to push retardant out the head. This system can be mounted in any configuration you like. All others should be mounted head up.

John
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 02:05:25 PM by ggl205 »

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #488 on: February 25, 2020, 02:17:37 PM »
Rex; your observations are astute. The pump is high and I did ponder that a lot - it is below the top of the fuel tank (assuming it was full) and about 7" above the outlet/ bottom of the tank. I am assured it can handle that amount of lift but its not ideal. The pre and post filters are the same body but the innards are sized for their location and respective roles - I dont recall the mesh size exactly - they are stainless. The inlet side is all AN8 and downstream is AN6.

The banjo fittings are the only way I can make it fit in this config. I don't really have space for the pre filter and the pump low down with normal fittings - do you think the banjo is restrictive - is that the concern - if yes I may have to go back to the drawing board?

John: I know it is ideal to have the bottle head up or bottom forward but is there are prohibition or is it just good form - I cant see myself having a head on at the moment I want to activate the extinguishers or is that naive?
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline ronnieroadster

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #489 on: February 25, 2020, 02:26:29 PM »
John as posted above the Firefox bottles can be in any position since they have an internal bladder this allows the fire retardant to  flow no matter where the outlet is located. If the brand your using has the internal bladder than any position will work. What brand bottles are you using and what is the date on them? From the two pictures I cannot see any brand type or labeling which normally would include the date of manufacture this is an important detail. As per the rules every two years from the original label date they must be re-certified for another two more years and for inspection must be in a location to be seen. 
 Ronnieroadster
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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #490 on: February 25, 2020, 03:47:15 PM »
John,
Look at the size of the two holes in the hollow bolt that secures the banjo to the pump. Compare the area of those to the area of a -8 hose and I think you will see that the banjo is not a good choice. I would much prefer a "sweep" 90 i.e. that is a 90 degree fitting that uses a small length of radius bent tubing to make the 90 degrees. Remember if the pump starts to cavitate when you go to full throttle and motor goes lean the next thing to burn are the piston tops. Even though the pump is a fixed displacement pump and it is pumping gas into the injector system, the pressure regulator valve is returning the unused fuel to the tank and also all pumps leak internally, high pressure side to the low pressure side (the pump inlet) which at low flow demand can prevent the pump from cavitating but when the flow demand increases the amount of fuel circulating internally drops and the demand for additional fuel from the tank increases and at this time it may cavitate. One type of "patch" that is done is to connect the fuel regulator return line to the inlet line of the pump, which can provide enough flow make up to prevent cavitation. With this set up you may experience some heating of the fuel as it picks up heat from the pressure control valve. If you happen to consider this arrangement contact me as there are some specific plumbing configurations that should be used.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #491 on: February 25, 2020, 09:25:26 PM »
John, just for fun, connect the inlet filter directly the the pump and hold it down along the lower frame... placement is more important than being able to remove as a unit... I'm with Rex, don't like the banjos either...
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #492 on: February 26, 2020, 02:49:11 PM »
Thanks guys.
Bottles aren?t labelled as they are empty for fit up. They are Cold Fire from DJ via a UK importer. Figured the backup on the salt and the familiarity at tech was of value.

Will revisit the fuel pump locale; it?s painful to rework but the posting feedback value is worth it and should save later heart ache.

Still struggling to see how the fire bottle nozzle forward is an issue on the salt.
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline Elmo Rodge

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #493 on: February 26, 2020, 04:29:53 PM »
It is a problem if the pickup in the bottle is on the bottom and you're decelerating hard, like with the 'chute out.  :wink:
 :cheers: Wayno

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: UK Lakester build G/GL
« Reply #494 on: February 27, 2020, 12:20:31 PM »
If some bits arrive in time: this weekend I shall mostly be responding to peer pressure by mounting my pre-filter and pump together (thanks for the direction Stainless) and seeing if it will fit in a position closer to the ground and completing my fire bottle mounts with the expectation that a lever action firing pin (as opposed to push action) will allow me to mount them bum forwards.
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.