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Author Topic: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be  (Read 30101 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #225 on: December 21, 2017, 01:02:34 AM »
Any restraint and all other alternatives need to be reviewed by the insurance folks.  Do not be surprised if closing the lake during the race is the insurable solution.

Offline desotoman

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #226 on: December 21, 2017, 01:19:46 AM »
A proposal  --  see attached diagram

Given:
1)   It is the competitor’s responsibility to stop within the allotted deceleration zone.
2)   In normal circumstances there is no reason why this cannot be achieved.
3)   In extraordinary circumstances vehicles must be constrained to within the emergency zone.
4)   If extraordinary circumstances arise, competitors have no basis to complain about using the arresting facility.
5)   Competitors evading or otherwise avoiding the facility will be dealt with administratively.

The proposed type of facility and policy shows the BLM a good faith effort to contain errant vehicles and would present minimal impact on the lakebed.

Tire bundles could be on pallets for forklift handling or in lifting bundles for crane truck handling.  This arrangement should be reasonably economical and logistically manageable given the task required.  The extra “wings” of arresting net are to collect vehicles which may, under extraordinary circumstances, have somewhat departed from the nominal course width.


Interested Observer,

Thanks for taking the time to do this proposal and drawing. I think you should send this to all of the officers of the SCTA as a proposal for them to talk about implementing. Good food for thought.

Thanks,

Tom G.
Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers. As a young boy I was always taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

Offline DRW

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #227 on: December 21, 2017, 04:22:34 AM »
Whew, I just read 16 pages of comments , ,
I have to think, The ones that went out the back door read this also and think, Hmmm Id better not do that again !
And the ones that havent gone out the back door are thinking, Id better not be the next one to do it after all this talk ?
Maybe ?    It needed a good blowup to get the point across ?
But, Ive never seen El Mirage, So I dont know  . .
But my first post in 2014 on this forum,Was about Bonneville,And how I went to the very end of the 5 mile run ,And that to
this day, I would swear , There was No Turn offs,  There was, But I sure didnt see them . . .
Good Luck to all, I hope it never happens again, I want to run El Mirage in May . . . . .
DW
Doesnt Mean That Much To me, To Mean That Much To You !

Offline Stan Back

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #228 on: December 21, 2017, 05:00:32 PM »
There are no turn-offs at El Mirage.

At Bonneville, it's hard to see the turnoffs at speed.  That's probably a good thing as if you're going too fast, you usually will overshoot them if you try.  Seeing them depends a lot on the salt conditions.  If it's great, you can't hardly see them -- or need them.  If it's not, you can continue to slow down until you find one.
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Celebrating 65th anniversary of racing on the salt.

Offline SPARKY

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #229 on: December 24, 2017, 05:06:38 PM »
After reading the BLM letter again here are the areas that must be addressed:

I.     Tarps under race cars and bikes
            self explanatory---just add to off inspection sheet inspections like Safety Gear
II.    Secure the race area:
             I suggest "DO NOT ENTER" tape completely around race area with only one entrance at       
             the staging area and all must exit at the same exit now between the inspection area and   
             the starting line. Each race team is allowed on push truck that issued a roof pylon as the
             team is released from the staging area and is surrendered as the push truck passes   
             through the exit.  That way there should only be SCTA officals, race vehicles and their   
             push vehicles in the race area.
III.    Out of Bounds ---ie out the back door
             Best way to stop is a Catch Net much like IO has drawn
IV.      Finish Line ---ie Light Bars and flashing lights
             I believe the surest way is to have inflatable pylons on each side with finish line flags strung across the track.
            They need to be tall enough that a "theorem" driver can see them from the start line.
V.        No Passing --Short Coursing---I am not familiar with what this means

To be able to keep running at El M. we are are going to have to modify how we have "always" done things IMO

It is going to cost some money and ruffle a LOT of feathers--

-its real simple to me ---change and be allowed to run or I predict we will have a short racing season!  YMMV
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 05:32:24 PM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
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"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline Sumner

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #230 on: December 25, 2017, 04:50:48 PM »
After reading most of the 16 pages prior to this my vote would be.

1.  Run east to west.

2. Put up a catch net before the bushes like Sparky and IO have suggested.

3. Tarp under your car or you go home without running.

Sure there is more danger running east to west, but you still have the same shutdown length, plus a catch fence at the end of it.  No different than dozens of tracks around the country where you wouldn't want to run past the catch fence.  If you don't feel safe with your car/bike in that situation, don't run.  As it is now, if you don't have a car/bike that can not stop before the backdoor, you are putting someone else's life in jeopardy and also our right to keep running at El Mirage.

If I remember right from the Cook meet that I went to the catch fence there was off to the side of the end of the track at the Interstate end and a driver would have to actually turn into it to use it.  It was off to the side since the pits were just a few feet from the Interstate fence.  If a car was under control they would by-pass the turn to the fence and go to the pits so that they could do their FIA 1 hour turnaround.  This gave the longest possible track available, which was needed due to the deteriorating salt conditions.

Looks like the BLM  is currently compiling a list of infractions to possibly justify shutting the racing down.  Let's not give them anymore.  I think FH-J and others have presented a good case for running the opposite direction and hope he presents it to the SCTA.

Sumner
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 04:53:01 PM by Sumner »

Offline jdincau

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #231 on: December 26, 2017, 03:33:04 PM »
Bill Taylor, when he was a starter, used to tell you before you left the line;
"Be safe, have fun, go fast, and remember the throttle works both ways"
     Sometimes  the pressure of long waits in line, fewer chances to run and wanting to salvage at least something from a weekend leads us to bad decisions.  Some of those decisions have been admitted or alluded to in this thread. Nothing we can accomplish on the lakebed is worth increasing the danger in what is already a dangerous hobby. I always tell Russ and Tony "If you don't like it click it off, there is always another day".  Realization of this fact will go a long way to eliminate outside the cones infractions due to target fixation.
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline thundersalt

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #232 on: December 26, 2017, 04:39:47 PM »
There is no traction running east to west. It would be a waste of time and money to continue running if that is the decision. If your going to do a catch net, then do it on the existing set up.
916 AA/GRMR 
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El Mirage 200 MPH Club
Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean

Offline SPARKY

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #233 on: December 26, 2017, 06:13:43 PM »
 :cheers:
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline desotoman

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #234 on: December 26, 2017, 07:32:26 PM »

Bill Taylor, when he was a starter, used to tell you before you left the line;
"Be safe, have fun, go fast, and remember the throttle works both ways"
     

Thanks Jim,
 
Remember when Dean Spencer used to be in charge of keeping everyone moved up in the starting line, and making sure everyone was suited up ready to go so there were no delays, for people who were not ready to make a run. I think we need someone like that telling all the drivers the consequences of going out the back door, at the starting line. Nothing like refreshing a drivers mind just before a run, as that would eliminate drivers excuses of I was not aware of ................


If your going to do a catch net, then do it on the existing set up.


Dean,

I agree.



Everyone has to remember we are not on private land like 99.9% of the racetracks across the country. If we were on private land I don't think we would be having this topic of conversation.

IMO having the starting line down at the back door end of the current track would be a disaster for the SCTA. The dust issue would be horrible, and that would effect every participant, every spectator, SCTA sales trailer etc. The dust the cars would be creating would be coming right back to the starting line a great deal of the time. That would also slow down the amount of runs that could be made. IMO it would be a slow death for the SCTA.

Over the years leaving El Mirage, I cannot count the many times I have had to come to a complete stop from the whiteout caused by the dust around me, that came from the racetrack.

The only constant in Life is change. Milwaukee Midget Chris suggested going to a one mile venue at the beginning of this thread, I agree with him. The cars and motorcycles are only going to attain higher and higher speeds as time rolls on, creating more problems stopping them. Why not make the change now, instead of in hindsight.

Tom G.

Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers. As a young boy I was always taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

Offline bvillercr

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #235 on: December 27, 2017, 06:33:48 PM »
Its been an interesting read thus far that's for sure.

I will say  this about one of the out the backdoor instances earlier this season that imho opinion the guy was a complete moron. He was still in the throttle well past the back door. His reasoning, he couldn't see. This was in a roadster that's gone well past 200 at both EM and Bonneville. This guy wasn't a rookie either. Im a friggen rookie and know that if I cant see to cut the power, dump the laundry and come to a safe stop. What the hell was that guys problem. That's not a lack of education that's just stupidity in my eyes.

I like Jims idea of turning the course around.

Another idea came to mind and I don't think its been brought up or maybe I missed it in between Sparky and JL's arguing. Funny how Troy was one of the out the back door violations in November. Yes I know it was a combination of breakage and other issues.

THe idea that came to mind is what about approaching the BLM about just completely closing the lake bed to anyone other than SCTA racers for the race days. So we have to pay a little more in entry fees in order for the BLM to be willing to close off the lake bed. Id rather pay a little extra for the 6 races a year than not have an option other than hit or miss Bonneville or hauling my car from AZ to Arkansas. Just a thought.



Nothing funny about it rookie.  :-D. I have been racing on this lake bed since 1990 and went out the back door one time.  Let’s hope you can do better.

Offline WhiskersMagee

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #236 on: December 27, 2017, 06:39:00 PM »
Tried to control myself all day but couldn't do it..."Troy drives at El Mirage and the last meet, I just called to see if he has ever seem them......."
.........as  he was driving out the back...................... :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Didn’t see any flashing lights as both my chutes didn’t open and only had front by brakes at this meet.   New pilot chutes bought new brakes bought and i didn’t get an official out the back door because i got back inside the cones quickly.  I thought our conversation was on the down low. 
Well......sorry but it was low hanging fruit 😜......We Need  to all work together to solve the problem but your pops is being combative. Let’s work together on this

Yep drinking and posting makes you miss where the combative comments started. 8-).

Offline bvillercr

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #237 on: December 27, 2017, 06:53:29 PM »
JL you may be assuming that this is all a personal attack---you are know to be thinned skin--- and you just maybe are being trolled---sorta like poking a frog just to see him jump---the poker has nothing against the frog they just like to see him jump..

Until about five minuets ago, I had no idea who seventy-seven year old John Andrew Langlo, who lives in Clovis, CA, is. Why would I troll him ??? Now that I know who he is, it's plain to see he's just a harmless old-man, who let's his mouth overload his a**. I will not respond to any more of his senior moments.

Sparky, I'm real, I've done all I've said I've done. I've held the records I've said I've held. And I have nothing against your horse.



So you did some serious research trying to find out who JL is.  You must have a Bonneville program found his entry and then googled his name.  You have dropped some names on here and i didn’t see you introduce yourself on the “introduce yourself”thread, and if you’re going to be calling someone out maybe we should know who you are?

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #238 on: December 27, 2017, 07:24:04 PM »


Does anyone know if any of these ideas/proposals are on the agenda for the meeting on the 5th?

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

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Offline jl222

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #239 on: December 28, 2017, 07:17:36 PM »
  The BLM should give the SCTA additional stopping distance for safety. Keep the existing back door line, warnings  and  punishments but more room to stop.

  The net with parachutes. caution tape taped to pylons at each back doors.

  Video taping or monitoring of usage behind existing out back line for Sundays on regular weeks to find out how many bikes cars ECT would be affected by additional  500 ft or whatever SCTA would want.

 


                                             JL222

JL --- I deleted the last two sentences--I thought we had an understanding !!   Sparky





                         
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 09:39:39 PM by SPARKY »