Author Topic: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be  (Read 30782 times)

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Offline Beef Stew

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #165 on: December 17, 2017, 12:01:07 AM »
Quote
donpearsall said: The solution must be one that allows for bonafide runaway vehicles or driver/riders having medical problems.

I'd like to throw this out for discussion.  I'm not married to it, but we seem to be grasping for solutions, and this probably wouldn't be a total fix.

A radio controlled stop light installed in every vehicle operated by an SCTA official at the end of the course.  Someone blows past the end too hot, the official hits the switch to let the racer know they're done.

If runaways are the concern, make it a two-channel radio, put in a relay and make the second channel a kill switch.

They get the red light, they're expected to slow down.  They show no intention of slowing down, the official shuts 'em down.

Actually, the idea of a remote kill switch might be good in the event of an accident where the engine is still running and the driver is unconcious.  Still quite a few mechanical fuel pumps around.

Wouldn't work at Bonneville where you have more than one course - might work at Elmo?

The one argument I won't accept is that it would be too expensive.  If you're forbidden to race, then you're sitting on piles of cash that has virtually no value.


fastesthonda_jim had a GPS speedometer on the Barnyard Bearcat about 10 years ago.

Drivers and crews have used cellphones during runs at Bonneville.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the Apple Watch for monitoring strokes, heart-attacks, whatever.

F1 teams monitor all 20 cars in a race, and can tell their drivers if the car is having a problem.

The technology exists for both the race teams and the SCTA to know the speed of the car (has s/he lifted, is s/he still accelerating), the drivers health (has s/he had a heart-attack), to killing the engine and releasing 'chute, on multiple cars on multiple courses. 

Because all of this tech already exists, it should be relatively easy to make a single program that ties it all together. From  voice communications with the driver to controlling a remote kill-switch, if the driver is incapacitated.

Former record holder at RIR ½ mile drags, El Mirage and Bonneville.

Beef Stew doesn't have his head where the sun-don't-shine. His head is in SoCal where the unusual is an everyday happening.

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #166 on: December 17, 2017, 12:58:38 AM »
Since starting to read this thread, I had forgotten all about the fact that some motorsports already use radio-control kill switches. Monster truck shows is one example- contestants and all other personnel have gotten quite accustomed to  it. And of course in pulling, kill switches tethered to the sled have been there since day one.
What would the primary objections be at El Mirage to remote kill switches?
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline SPARKY

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #167 on: December 17, 2017, 08:46:46 AM »
Why in the world is an arresting net acceptable in drag racing and not to us?  I agree with MIDGET that just because some ideas  cost some more money that they should not be considered. 

Pylons that don't blow over and could be seen from the start line
Safety STOP NET.

More to come:
I would suggest that SCTA come up with a very proactive Safety program for all volunteers, cars, bikes, DRIVERS and crew members.

The first meet the car or bike attends each year----- everyone and thing be treated absolutely like a new car with a rookie driver.

on the first controlled pass have a camera inside the car recording driver and cockpit area---dust in drivers visibility area or driver malfunction---clear up the issues before that seasons comp lis. is signed off on--

EXPECTING lots of incoming ---but I wish to be able to keep racing!!!!!!!!!  sparky   
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 03:56:30 PM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
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"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline Stan Back

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #168 on: December 17, 2017, 11:53:35 AM »
. . . as for running the other way -- past the pucker bushes (not removable -- we can't even remove colored glass in that area) that would certainly cause more injuries to the drivers (riders), you come up suddenly on a public (dirt) road and into private property.
Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club".
Celebrating 67th anniversary of racing on the salt.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #169 on: December 17, 2017, 12:02:45 PM »
Sounds like the perfect place to put the safety catch net.... choose the net or the bush.... both come with a little pucker....
 :cheers:

Have we arrived at  :dhorse: stage yet?  Looks like time for some corrective measure before the BLM forces the SCTA out...
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline POPS

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #170 on: December 17, 2017, 12:37:38 PM »
NHRA uses 3 things to stop cars:
Sand trap.
Catch net.
RF shut down and chute release. See electrimotion.com, Safety Products.
To me the RF is a minimum addition.  The cost isn't a show stopper. The net would be a bonus.
POPS
 

Offline SPARKY

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #171 on: December 17, 2017, 03:41:26 PM »
POPS  that makes a lot of sense!!!!!!!!!!

   we need a one with two channels 1st for fuel and ign.  the 2nd. for chute
 if you get YOUR the chute out before the first wire doesn't shut down ign.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline donpearsall

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #172 on: December 17, 2017, 04:32:34 PM »
I can just see it now. You are well on your way to breaking your rival's record big time, and 1/4 mile before the finish line he presses the shut-down button he cloned. Oh too bad for you...equipment malfunction.

Don
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #173 on: December 17, 2017, 06:05:31 PM »
Hi, Don,

Monitoring cheating is well within the purview of the SCTA.  Monitoring idiocy, on the other hand, has proven elusive.

But monitoring cheating stays in-house.  Idiocy winds up involving the BLM.

Seeing as there is an off the shelf product that could probably be made to work, that would let everybody continue to race in the direction they would prefer to go, and for the 1.3 mile course length, the question then becomes:

"Would you rather deal with the SCTA, or the BLM?"

We can bitch about cheating when it happens.  But if you're not permitted to race, then we can't bitch about cheating . . .   :wink:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

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Offline Vinsky

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #174 on: December 17, 2017, 08:01:31 PM »
The BLM has the authority to impose fines on anyone breaking their laws. Including unsafe speed.
John

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #175 on: December 17, 2017, 10:51:21 PM »
I can just see it now. You are well on your way to breaking your rival's record big time, and 1/4 mile before the finish line he presses the shut-down button he cloned. Oh too bad for you...equipment malfunction.

Don
That's a really lame excuse for not using remote shutdown [& possibly chute deploy].

How about some legitimate reasons? Let's hear them.
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline SPARKY

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #176 on: December 18, 2017, 03:54:29 AM »
 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline mtiberio

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #177 on: December 18, 2017, 07:09:08 AM »
Remote shutdown sounds reasonable, but opens up a host of issues...

What about bikes? Cutting a motor at speed could easily induce a tank slapper.
At what point do you implement the shutdown?
Who makes the decision?
Should it be automatic?
Never mind cheating by a competitor, a defeat switch inside the cockpit would be the easiest thing to rig, and as such, the remote wouldn't stop someone wanting an extra long run (granted it would be their last).

Any suggestion that compares El Mirage to a dedicated drag strip or that includes huge (and permanent or even just heavy) infrastructure investments are not going to happen. Volunteer organizations being what they are, unless you want to double or triple your entry fee.

Earlier I was against reversing direction, but in looking back at the 6 events this year, we had tail winds for the first 3 and headwinds for the final 3, so it would be a wash. As far as a competitor getting injured or dying in a reverse direction run into the pucker brush or the fence before Callaway's, better one of us than a spectator. We sign a release, and have to have some expectation that death could be the result of any run we make.

Reversing direction, together with some form of automatic motor shutoff so at least vehicles are not hitting the fence under power may be the cheapest, easiest and most effective solution.

Online Elmo Rodge

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #178 on: December 18, 2017, 07:45:40 AM »
How about a sniper?  :cheers:
Wayno

Offline SPARKY

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Re: El Mirage – To Be or Not To Be
« Reply #179 on: December 18, 2017, 09:45:05 AM »
after several serious mishaps with trains I know that the FRA is working toward systems that come into play in the event of Human malfunction.

  I cant imagine that we will escape that kind of thinking:
yearly and meet training of all---course vols, drivers, riders, crew

Something to help the operator know where he is:
finish line pylons---that can be seen from the start line and don't blow down
count down markers  white with black before finish line, black with white after the finish

something that stops power transmission to the ground
automatic braking of some sort
safety stop barrier of some sort

We are going to have to present a comprehensive plan to the B L M to show them we are working on our part when we ask for the additional shut down area---oh by the way include a ASK for a citation to be issued if any one enters the newly awarded SAFETY Area
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:50:14 AM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller