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Author Topic: Bockscar 2.0  (Read 8521 times)
saltwheels262, handyguy and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2017, 10:42:48 PM »

Well guys, this one is planned to be built like the last one... the entire car being a roll cage.  The old car didn't kill us, with any luck, the new one won't either.... The weaker parts of the car bent and broke... every corner of the suspension was broken, torn from the mounts,  and by my guess absorbed energy. 

I think building a weak point in the frame will lead to premature failure in the rough courses we have been experiencing. 
And guys... the engine weighs about the same as the driver.... it ain't a BBC
So if the guys that want their car to break apart are smart enough to know how it is going to wreck so they can make it break when and where they want it to.... more power to them....
I am not that guy.  cheers

The table is ready for pipe.... no pic today
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2017, 10:44:28 PM »

 cheers
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2017, 03:54:01 AM »

it's always from the point of view...

if you be in vehicle which goes 35 mph, your weight is about 150 pounds, and you decelerate in 0,1 second to Zero mph your body mass will became 1,5 ton....now here the seat belt starts to work...in a passenger car the seat belt is so designed that it allowed you to move forward...this increase the time you are moving....means it needs longer that you come to the stop than the vehicle.....and in this way it is reducing your mass...and this will be protecting you to get hurt.

in a LSR vehicle, with the seat belt we using, you became a part of the vehicle....only in the direct direction of the seat belt there is a stretch effect which reduce the stress on the body...sideways there is no movement possible....

now it's depends how you "crash"....pencil roll, this will be never an issue to your body because the deceleration force on your body is very low. if the vehicle start to fly it is totally different...every time the vehicle has a contact with the ground...as a part of the racer...the deceleration moment goes on your body......

if the impact to the ground is a instant stop (albeit for a very short time) your body will create a big mass as I explained with the sudden stop inside of 0,1 seconds....and this is the critical moment.....so long the vehicle is at high speed in the movement....means rolls or fly's...your body is not creating a big mass

a very good example is Stainless Birthday party 2013.....due to this that the streamliner was tumbling over and over...the force on Stainless stayed low...if the streamliner had a longer stop contact on the ground than it could be serious for him.

now to the weight of the vehicle "slowing" down at high speed.....a heavy weight need longer to slow down....at the salt there is nothing we can crash in (except the salt...)...that means in the other hand....the vehicle needs longer to come to the rest......for your body it means more time to decelerate....but this counts only if the vehicle change not his direction or comes to a sudden stop.....means, when the racer stand on his wheels and spin....or pencil rolls into the moving direction.....

all changes from the moving direction into a other direction creates a deceleration effect on your body.....

it will be always a matter of how the racer crash.....and depends on that....have the luck that he does it the right way  

 If a lighter vehicle is "easier" on things they run into then it has the same affect on being easier on those inside the vehicle.

A heavy vehicle at 100 mph hits, say, a house. It goes through 3 walls before the coming to a stop. A lighter vehicle just breaks through the outer wall before coming to a stop. All other things being equal, which vehicle has subjected the driver to higher acceleration?


« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 03:56:38 AM by PorkPie » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2017, 09:09:03 AM »

An idea for attenuating the impact of a high speed crash might be to package the driver in a crash structure isolated from the vehicle chassis. In the Ken Carter Lincoln jump car (donít ask) a complete sub-chassis (?) was suspended within the actual chassis (monocoque) structure by shock absorbing coiled wire rope attachments. These were commercially available hardware items used to protect shock sensitive equipment being transported in containers. The ability of the sub-chassis to move independently of the outer structure absorbs some of the shock. Pork Pieís analysis shows the value of even tenths of a second in substantially reducing the impact G loads on the driver. This design solution would be a more predictable method of reducing crash impact than a self-destructing chassis.
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« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2017, 09:15:51 AM »

This wire rope isolator was what I had used. Other designs are commercially available. I hope the photo is here.


* wireRopeIso.jpg (29.24 KB, 231x248 - viewed 58 times.)
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2017, 09:34:25 AM »

An additional advantage of this driver isolation strategy is that it would be omni-directional so you donít have to plan for a particular crash scenario. Also, it will be continually effective in a multiple impact event. cheers
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2017, 11:56:15 PM »

Dick, I like that idea, but we don't really have room for it.  We are 24 x 16 outside the frame rails.

Speaking of frame rails I cut 2 140 inch ones and put them on the table.  Stops are squared and welded to 24 inches.  These are the bottom rails...  The tube is 1020 ERW .140 wall according to the printing on it. 

Then life jumped in so tomorrow I  will cut some cross pieces. 


* btable5.jpg (174.14 KB, 612x816 - viewed 134 times.)
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2017, 12:21:46 PM »

Looks like a rotisserie.

Smartest idea imaginable.

Cheaters always prosper.

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« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2017, 04:45:41 PM »

My Good Dr. -- is that supposed to be wisdom of a Sage or just musings???
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2017, 07:17:37 PM »

Definitely the musings of a wise Sage!  grin cheers
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« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2017, 12:09:16 AM »

Definitely the musings of a wise Sage!  grin cheers

Woody, you forgot old... I think he is the oldest guy to ride a motorcycle in competition at Bonneville....

OK, cut a few cross braces, added the crouch belt attach point to one, need to make one more.... for this part I think... Coping with the Mill, straight cuts are easy... space plus 3/4 cut on the saw, then hole saw 3/8 per side. 
I could work faster if I didn't have to think about how I need to change things and help the neighbor fix his mower.

Only tacked the first one so far... still thinking.... can you hear it where you are?


* btable6.jpg (201.74 KB, 661x882 - viewed 134 times.)
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2017, 12:02:50 PM »

Stainless,
Great to see you are building a new Bockscar!!! Looking forward to watching your build and see what ever new modifications you will be incorporating. After running the old car for so many years I am sure you have a long list of "If I every do this again I am going to change (insert long list of changes and new ideas here)" .

Rex
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« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2017, 03:01:38 PM »

.....So if the guys that want their car to break apart are smart enough to know how it is going to wreck so they can make it break when and where they want it to.... more power to them....
I am not that guy.  cheers...

I have a feeling most of us are "not that guy".

Great to see you working on the car  cheers cheers.  Since the last one set so many records, I imagine big changes are not in your plans,

Sumner
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2017, 11:32:26 PM »

Sumner, hopefully I won't do anything that slows it down too much.   rolleyes

OK guys, been a little quiet because I was out checking the breweries and distilleries in Little Rock, Memphis, Birmingham, Columbus GA, Orlando, St. Augustine, Savannah and Nashville.... unfortunately I didn't find one in Poplar Bluff.  There are some really good beers being produced out there.... and some tasty craft whiskey.  Corsair in Nashville makes both.  wink

Back to business... been cutting and pasting.... only screwed up once, got a little ahead of myself and shortened a main rail before I should have, but no big deal.... it just made it a little harder to square up the back.  I am planning a removable frame rail to make changing engines easier, and maybe even make a mount system that includes the frame rail... we will see.

Spent a lot of time today making sure everything was square before and after tacking... the drivers compartment will be between the 2nd and third set of bars.  So far only the first and second are tacked in.   The back of the drivers compartment needs the top bar coped for the roll bar... so been calculating, and cross checking the numbers on our drawings.  Ideally we would do a 8.438 inch CL radius on the bar, but I don't know anyone with one of those cnc benders that seem to spit pipe in any shape you want it... so I will be looking to see if anyone local has a 7.5 inch radius shoe.  I don't know if anyone even makes an 8...
This will make a lot more room for the helmets, the old cage was a 6.25 CL radius
So here are a couple of pics to see I haven't fixed Linda's kiln yet... waiting on parts  grin


* btable7.jpg (232.58 KB, 686x914 - viewed 84 times.)

* btable8.jpg (226.26 KB, 686x914 - viewed 75 times.)
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 08:03:10 AM »

Sumner, hopefully I won't do anything that slows it down too much.   rolleyes

OK guys, been a little quiet because I was out checking the breweries and distilleries in Little Rock, Memphis, Birmingham, Columbus GA, Orlando, St. Augustine, Savannah and Nashville.... unfortunately I didn't find one in Poplar Bluff.  There are some really good beers being produced out there.... and some tasty craft whiskey.  Corsair in Nashville makes both.  wink

Back to business... been cutting and pasting.... only screwed up once, got a little ahead of myself and shortened a main rail before I should have, but no big deal.... it just made it a little harder to square up the back.  I am planning a removable frame rail to make changing engines easier, and maybe even make a mount system that includes the frame rail... we will see.

Spent a lot of time today making sure everything was square before and after tacking... the drivers compartment will be between the 2nd and third set of bars.  So far only the first and second are tacked in.   The back of the drivers compartment needs the top bar coped for the roll bar... so been calculating, and cross checking the numbers on our drawings.  Ideally we would do a 8.438 inch CL radius on the bar, but I don't know anyone with one of those cnc benders that seem to spit pipe in any shape you want it... so I will be looking to see if anyone local has a 7.5 inch radius shoe.  I don't know if anyone even makes an 8...
This will make a lot more room for the helmets, the old cage was a 6.25 CL radius
So here are a couple of pics to see I haven't fixed Linda's kiln yet... waiting on parts  grin

For that large radius bend, call Machine Head in Kansas City and talk to Dick, https://machine-head.hub.biz/ . Last time I was down there he had a Baileigh power roller with a full set of dies. One of these https://www.baileigh.com/manual-ring-roller-r-m40 can make any radius you need. He's a great guy and really easy to work with too.
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