Author Topic: Bockscar 2.0  (Read 464155 times)

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #900 on: September 13, 2020, 11:15:36 PM »
OK, sorting out some stuff on the dyno I figured that the stock pencil coils that I had on there were not making it... had a bit of a miss at high RPMs... so the LS2 coils I had planned for the new computer are required now.  A little more rewire and now the those are on the car and seem to be working better than the pencils.  We will know more after WF, but the miss is missing  :roll:
Next up I'll get it on the scales with the new springs and adjust the suspension...
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #901 on: September 15, 2020, 01:12:01 AM »
Bockscar all back together... scaled 47.6% front 52.4% rear with me on board.  I may play with the springs a little tomorrow but I'm close now.  The suspension is still stiff, we will see how it goes at WF. 
YES, I still have a few things to take care of... the clutch slave is leaking a little, still need to put in the new brake master but the list is getting shorter.  Plan to drag it by a couple of places that provide a little support.

Here's the numbers  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline floydjer

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #902 on: September 15, 2020, 09:43:56 AM »
Staggered weight bias strikes me as odd...Have room to shift anything towards center? Or add weight to the light sides. Carry on JB
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Offline jacksoni

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #903 on: September 15, 2020, 09:58:17 AM »
It probably doesn't make much difference for you, not doing any corners but if you were going to truly try to balance it and fix the cross weights, my little program says lower the FL or RR or raise FR or RL. In other words turn the screw slightly, like 1 turn, on your coil overs and remeasure. The right/left weight is pretty good, only 5 lbs different and the F/R is 47.5%/52.5%. You can of course just calculate yourself but there are online calculators and I have an app on my phone (cost 0.99) so I can do it in my shop. I had redone my water tank and made big shift in weight distribution and I wanted to see where I was (had handling problems at speedweek)
Jack Iliff
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #904 on: September 15, 2020, 10:36:40 AM »
Thanks guys, the stagger is adjustable, and I am not finished.  The links on the levers move it around... but I think stiction plays a factor here as well... lots of parts that have not had their new wear in yet. I can balance it, climb out and back in and it changes 10-15 lbs.  The scales are as level as the eye can tell with a 6' level on a 15' extrusion checking every direction.  So I will put it on the ground, make sure I am at the correct ride heights... if I have to change it... back to the scales.

OK so the springs I have are 185's in the front and 235's in the back.  Things to consider... the front springs are about 18 inches apart on a straight axle that has a 45 inch track.  The rears have the same spring width on a 31 inch track... remember the rear is on a swingarm so there is a minimum of flex side to side.  I'm not a suspension guy, but I think the levers enter into this equation... which for me was trial and error.... probably more error than trial  :-o
The old car really had visible more than functional shocks, with the rear suspension air shocks and usually had 325 lbs of air in them.  These shocks are fully functional, but so far they are set to minimum compression and rebound.  I have dyno sheets on them, but even at minimum is still hard to move.
LJohn, if there's anything else I need to tell you just let me know  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #905 on: September 15, 2020, 11:28:53 AM »
In other words turn the screw slightly, like 1 turn, on your coil overs and remeasure.

I would need to cross reference but iirc (Staniforth?) says adjust the push rod, not the coil pre-load, on a push or pull rod suspension. I cant remember why and would need to look it up but that comment stuck in my brain cell.

It seems that with the 1:1.6 ratio the springs are pushing back 1.6 times more than their stated poundage which messes with my head as I initially assumed the wheel bump had a 1.6 multiplier so gruntier springs would be required.

John
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Offline salt27

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #906 on: September 15, 2020, 11:31:10 AM »
Stainless, you are unbalanced, stay out of the car you're making things worse.    lol8

Offline ggl205

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #907 on: September 15, 2020, 01:55:48 PM »
It seems that with the 1:1.6 ratio the springs are pushing back 1.6 times more than their stated poundage which messes with my head as I initially assumed the wheel bump had a 1.6 multiplier so gruntier springs would be required.

John, one inch vertical axle travel means a 1.6? compression of the spring. So, a 180 pound spring now yields 288 pounds, 180+108=288.

Stainless, how much did the spring compress when the car hit the ground? Pre load of the spring will add a bit more spring rate so you are likely seeing more than 288 pounds per corner with one inch of bump.

John

Offline floydjer

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #908 on: September 15, 2020, 02:43:53 PM »
Reminds of the time I listened to George Jones and Sammy Swindell debate the proper amount of stagger for a Saturday night...... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #909 on: September 15, 2020, 07:52:02 PM »
Stainless, you are so close just a little more up on the left front spring collar and you are there! You are probably correct about your swing arm style rear suspension as the swing arm really works like a large anti roll bar and typically when you are doing corner weights you disconnect the anti roll bars. Is the car sitting level? If so then I   think it does show the accuracy of your swing arm fabrication  and the squarness of its mounting to the chassis. If it was off you could not get the corner weight this close without have the car setting out of level. Another plus on your car is that the chassis looks as if it is very stiff in torsion, another good quality to have to make corner weights come out. When you do a spring collar adjustment you need to bounce on the chassis to get all of the sticktion in the suspension parts to settle out. Looking Good!!!!

Rex
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #910 on: September 15, 2020, 09:33:32 PM »
Stainless ?

Just lean a little to the front (back?) on the left (right?) side and everything will be alright.

Stan

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #911 on: September 15, 2020, 11:52:54 PM »
Stainless, you are unbalanced, stay out of the car you're making things worse.    lol8

Obviously...  :wink:  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #912 on: September 16, 2020, 01:00:42 AM »
OK guys... remember I'm not a suspension guy.... so today I reset all the springs back to the same preload height (in pairs) and then the connecting links.  I aired the tires and started again.  I checked the floor level, got it closer with an 1/8" piece of masonite.  Rechecked the car level, tires were level, body slightly out of level...leveled the body with the link in the rear... weight off by 20 lbs... adjusted link in front, bounced car... off by 6, readjusted... in and out, bounce, weights started being repeatable.  Got it to stay repeat +/- 2 so I just left it... tightened the spring locks, link lock nuts and called it good. 
Feel like I spent most of the day on my head... it is a long way down to the car on the ground.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline ggl205

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #913 on: September 16, 2020, 09:29:04 AM »
Good work, Stainless. Now that you have a few of the wrinkles ironed out, I am anxious to hear how the car handles at WF.

John

Offline floydjer

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #914 on: September 16, 2020, 10:25:12 AM »
Depending on how you hold your Schlitz Tall Boy should get you spot on!  :cheers:
I`d never advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone...But they work for me.