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Author Topic: Bockscar 2.0  (Read 73988 times)

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #120 on: December 17, 2017, 11:02:15 PM »
Why is it old guys seem to be up late into the night....  :roll:

Well Ross and I have been beating around some ideas for the front roll bar... and doing a little sitting in and checking...
the original idea I had has some drawbacks... a little narrow on the arms
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #121 on: December 17, 2017, 11:17:26 PM »
Idea 2 shows more possibility... although this one is not the final.... I need to find a smaller radius die for the joggle...  but I think this one shows a lot of promise.  Just needs to start a little higher on the tube, and not be wider than the car  :| .... learned a little about bending on this one.  Yes there will be bracing to the top rail and more tubes on the top, but the one in the middle makes it easy to hold it up. Target angle is 30 degrees. 
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2017, 04:02:53 AM »
why not to the top of the rail and a straight piece between the frame rails?  You could even offset the joint if you wanted a little deflection in the top frame rail in the event of a ahhh sh!% 
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline Frank06

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Re:
« Reply #123 on: December 18, 2017, 04:27:06 AM »
+1 on going to the top rail.

Offline mc2032

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #124 on: December 18, 2017, 05:58:42 AM »
If you look at Stainless' avatar pic you can see how the canopy has a flat (horizontal) transition before it meets the vertical side of the car  (approximately 3" on either side).  Stainless and Pork Pie want to keep this horizontal area from the front of the car thru the canopy to the tail section so the roll bars need to be inside of the top bar similar to the second hoop example.
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #125 on: December 18, 2017, 06:01:10 AM »
I know nothing about streamlined cars, but why does the upper frame have to be as high as it is (although I don't really know the actual height)?  It looks like it restricts the height and shape of the bodywork, especially ahead of the driver which determines his sightline (maybe I'm the only one who has problems running over flag stands.) It also looks like it would restrict exiting.  With proper trussing, the height looks as though it could be reduced.
Tom
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Offline mc2032

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #126 on: December 18, 2017, 06:23:18 AM »
the top rails are 24" outside to outside, the side rails are 16" top to bottom.  the top of the roll bar is apprx 9.5 inches above the top rails.  driving position is almost prone.  so, in positon with a helmet on, your eye level is just above the top rail/top of the body panel.  there is some rake to the car which helps line of sight.  Bob, I hope I am not giving away too many secrets/details.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 07:00:54 AM by mc2032 »
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2017, 06:53:58 AM »
the drivers view...you can see through the windshield....1/2 inch deeper you see your toes......with shoe size 11+ you be disqualified to drive the Bockscar.... :roll:
Pork Pie

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Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2017, 07:58:09 AM »
the drivers view...you can see through the windshield....1/2 inch deeper you see your toes......with shoe size 11+ you be disqualified to drive the Bockscar.... :roll:
Good to know.  My shoe size is 8 so I guess I would qualify although my sight line might be a bit short at 23".
the top rails are 24" outside to outside, the side rails are 16" top to bottom.  the top of the roll bar is apprx 9.5 inches above the top rails.  driving position is almost prone.  so, in positon with a helmet on, your eye level is just above the top rail/top of the body panel.  there is some rake to the car which helps line of sight.  Bob, I hope I am not giving away too many secrets/details.
I only see bottom rails and top rails.  What are the side rails, or are they not there yet?
Tom
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Offline mc2032

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #129 on: December 18, 2017, 09:11:40 AM »
I should have said top rail to bottom rail common to each vertical side outside dimension is 16".  As the chassis is still in  the assembly phase, I still think of the sides. top and bottom as separate pieces/planes.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 09:44:00 AM by mc2032 »
#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, Bunches of passes down the salt and quit counting.

Offline Calkins

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #130 on: December 18, 2017, 09:16:43 AM »
For reference, this is what the "old" car looked like...
Justin Calkins - Iowa Falls, Iowa  USA

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #131 on: December 18, 2017, 10:07:40 AM »
OK Kids... a lot of view and discussion since midnight.... Look back at the original pictures if necessary... The rectangle that forms the frame is and will be 24 x 16 inches...  the old roll hoop was 9 inches above the top of the top rail.  To accommodate the growth of helmets I planned 9.5 inches... it actually became 9 5/8ish+,  when I coped it in so I will deal with all that extra frontal area with HP increases in the engines...  :roll:
The flat on the sides of the tunnel are theoretically down force with the rake of the car about 3 inches... I'm not an aero guy, but I'm also not a guy that argues with the success of our original design.  
I wear a size 13.... it will not fit between the bottom and top rail... that's about 12.75 inches for the math challenged....  :-D
Back to the front bar... to the top rail would would be nice... and not totally out of the question.  I need to find a 5.5 x 1.625 JD2 die set to borrow.  I haven't checked yet, but it may be possible to make the bend to the rail or very close to the rail to a vertical.  The goal is to try to keep as much of the front bar out of the limited driver space as possible.
Discussion is ongoing... more to follow  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #132 on: December 18, 2017, 12:15:26 PM »
I had forgotten the "beverage shelf"  :-D
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #133 on: December 18, 2017, 12:37:12 PM »
What will make this cage or break it is going to be the next few tubes that Stainless installs between the junction of the front roll bar and the upper and lower frame rails. The idea is to establish load paths that will distribute the loads into the main frame rails. I know I will be watching.

Great job Stainless! Keep it up.

Rex
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Bockscar 2.0
« Reply #134 on: December 18, 2017, 03:37:56 PM »
What will make this cage or break it is going to be the next few tubes that Stainless installs between the junction of the front roll bar and the upper and lower frame rails. The idea is to establish load paths that will distribute the loads into the main frame rails. I know I will be watching.

Great job Stainless! Keep it up.

Rex

All professionals and Mechanical Engineers are welcome to submit sketches of what they think would be best....  8-)   When we built the lakester 33 years ago from our tumbled liner we were within safety standards... the second and third updates to it kept it within standards.... but tightened up the living space.  Hopefully my start from a clean slate will not make it worse  :| Johnboy survived his 190+ MPH tumble... the parts that bent in the old frame were attach points or attached to corners. 
Building a survivable enclosure is again the goal...  :cheers:



Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.