Landracing Forum Home
June 24, 2018, 09:24:47 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bockscar 2.0  (Read 29913 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 67
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6735


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2017, 12:02:15 AM »

Why is it old guys seem to be up late into the night....  rolleyes

Well Ross and I have been beating around some ideas for the front roll bar... and doing a little sitting in and checking...
the original idea I had has some drawbacks... a little narrow on the arms


* btable38.jpg (169.57 KB, 773x580 - viewed 61 times.)

* btable39.jpg (141.06 KB, 644x483 - viewed 58 times.)

* btable40.jpg (133.17 KB, 644x483 - viewed 63 times.)
Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 67
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6735


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2017, 12:17:26 AM »

Idea 2 shows more possibility... although this one is not the final.... I need to find a smaller radius die for the joggle...  but I think this one shows a lot of promise.  Just needs to start a little higher on the tube, and not be wider than the car  undecided .... learned a little about bending on this one.  Yes there will be bracing to the top rail and more tubes on the top, but the one in the middle makes it easy to hold it up. Target angle is 30 degrees. 


* btable42.jpg (135.35 KB, 490x653 - viewed 76 times.)

* btable43.jpg (165.55 KB, 539x719 - viewed 74 times.)
Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
SPARKY
Global Moderator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 76
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6443




« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2017, 05:02:53 AM »

why not to the top of the rail and a straight piece between the frame rails?  You could even offset the joint if you wanted a little deflection in the top frame rail in the event of a ahhh sh!% 
Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
Frank06
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 64
Location: Maine
Posts: 330




Ignore
Re:
« Reply #123 on: December 18, 2017, 05:27:06 AM »

+1 on going to the top rail.
Logged
mc2032
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Age: 55
Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
Posts: 46


Reliability and performance are highly overrated.




Ignore
« Reply #124 on: December 18, 2017, 06:58:42 AM »

If you look at Stainless' avatar pic you can see how the canopy has a flat (horizontal) transition before it meets the vertical side of the car  (approximately 3" on either side).  Stainless and Pork Pie want to keep this horizontal area from the front of the car thru the canopy to the tail section so the roll bars need to be inside of the top bar similar to the second hoop example.
Logged

#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, 5 passes down the salt and counting.
Koncretekid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 70
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia & Lafayette, Co.
Posts: 1038





Ignore
« Reply #125 on: December 18, 2017, 07:01:10 AM »

I know nothing about streamlined cars, but why does the upper frame have to be as high as it is (although I don't really know the actual height)?  It looks like it restricts the height and shape of the bodywork, especially ahead of the driver which determines his sightline (maybe I'm the only one who has problems running over flag stands.) It also looks like it would restrict exiting.  With proper trussing, the height looks as though it could be reduced.
Tom
Logged

We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!
mc2032
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Age: 55
Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
Posts: 46


Reliability and performance are highly overrated.




Ignore
« Reply #126 on: December 18, 2017, 07:23:18 AM »

the top rails are 24" outside to outside, the side rails are 16" top to bottom.  the top of the roll bar is apprx 9.5 inches above the top rails.  driving position is almost prone.  so, in positon with a helmet on, your eye level is just above the top rail/top of the body panel.  there is some rake to the car which helps line of sight.  Bob, I hope I am not giving away too many secrets/details.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 08:00:54 AM by mc2032 » Logged

#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, 5 passes down the salt and counting.
PorkPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Heilbronn, Germany
Posts: 1624


think fast.....always




Ignore
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2017, 07:53:58 AM »

the drivers view...you can see through the windshield....1/2 inch deeper you see your toes......with shoe size 11+ you be disqualified to drive the Bockscar.... rolleyes
Logged

Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member
Koncretekid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 70
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia & Lafayette, Co.
Posts: 1038





Ignore
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2017, 08:58:09 AM »

the drivers view...you can see through the windshield....1/2 inch deeper you see your toes......with shoe size 11+ you be disqualified to drive the Bockscar.... rolleyes
Good to know.  My shoe size is 8 so I guess I would qualify although my sight line might be a bit short at 23".
the top rails are 24" outside to outside, the side rails are 16" top to bottom.  the top of the roll bar is apprx 9.5 inches above the top rails.  driving position is almost prone.  so, in positon with a helmet on, your eye level is just above the top rail/top of the body panel.  there is some rake to the car which helps line of sight.  Bob, I hope I am not giving away too many secrets/details.
I only see bottom rails and top rails.  What are the side rails, or are they not there yet?
Tom
Logged

We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!
mc2032
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Age: 55
Location: F4 on the KFDI Stormtracker Map (Wichita, KS)
Posts: 46


Reliability and performance are highly overrated.




Ignore
« Reply #129 on: December 18, 2017, 10:11:40 AM »

I should have said top rail to bottom rail common to each vertical side outside dimension is 16".  As the chassis is still in  the assembly phase, I still think of the sides. top and bottom as separate pieces/planes.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:44:00 AM by mc2032 » Logged

#1032 1350 A-PBG & F, 5 passes down the salt and counting.
Calkins
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 35
Location: Iowa Falls, Iowa USA
Posts: 538


On Any Sunday


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #130 on: December 18, 2017, 10:16:43 AM »

For reference, this is what the "old" car looked like...


* Komives16_8161608dm.jpg (288.61 KB, 785x589 - viewed 82 times.)

* Komives160818_MG_5776rck.jpg (160.72 KB, 786x524 - viewed 65 times.)
Logged

Justin Calkins - Iowa Falls, Iowa  USA
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 67
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6735


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #131 on: December 18, 2017, 11:07:40 AM »

OK Kids... a lot of view and discussion since midnight.... Look back at the original pictures if necessary... The rectangle that forms the frame is and will be 24 x 16 inches...  the old roll hoop was 9 inches above the top of the top rail.  To accommodate the growth of helmets I planned 9.5 inches... it actually became 9 5/8ish+,  when I coped it in so I will deal with all that extra frontal area with HP increases in the engines...  rolleyes
The flat on the sides of the tunnel are theoretically down force with the rake of the car about 3 inches... I'm not an aero guy, but I'm also not a guy that argues with the success of our original design.  
I wear a size 13.... it will not fit between the bottom and top rail... that's about 12.75 inches for the math challenged....  grin
Back to the front bar... to the top rail would would be nice... and not totally out of the question.  I need to find a 5.5 x 1.625 JD2 die set to borrow.  I haven't checked yet, but it may be possible to make the bend to the rail or very close to the rail to a vertical.  The goal is to try to keep as much of the front bar out of the limited driver space as possible.
Discussion is ongoing... more to follow  cheers
Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
SPARKY
Global Moderator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 76
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6443




« Reply #132 on: December 18, 2017, 01:15:26 PM »

I had forgotten the "beverage shelf"  grin
Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
Rex Schimmer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 75
Location: Fulton, CA
Posts: 2214


Only time and money prevent completion!




Ignore
« Reply #133 on: December 18, 2017, 01:37:12 PM »

What will make this cage or break it is going to be the next few tubes that Stainless installs between the junction of the front roll bar and the upper and lower frame rails. The idea is to establish load paths that will distribute the loads into the main frame rails. I know I will be watching.

Great job Stainless! Keep it up.

Rex
Logged

Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 67
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6735


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #134 on: December 18, 2017, 04:37:56 PM »

What will make this cage or break it is going to be the next few tubes that Stainless installs between the junction of the front roll bar and the upper and lower frame rails. The idea is to establish load paths that will distribute the loads into the main frame rails. I know I will be watching.

Great job Stainless! Keep it up.

Rex

All professionals and Mechanical Engineers are welcome to submit sketches of what they think would be best....  cool   When we built the lakester 33 years ago from our tumbled liner we were within safety standards... the second and third updates to it kept it within standards.... but tightened up the living space.  Hopefully my start from a clean slate will not make it worse  undecided Johnboy survived his 190+ MPH tumble... the parts that bent in the old frame were attach points or attached to corners. 
Building a survivable enclosure is again the goal...  cheers



Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page May 13, 2018, 01:53:32 PM