Author Topic: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster  (Read 8489 times)

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Offline Happy Pappy

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need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« on: September 10, 2017, 08:35:29 PM »
Hey All,
Pretty new to this, been trying to get an answer but so far Nada. So here goes...
If I am using the C4, no torque converter, reverse shift pattern, rollerized etc. So I get pushed off the line in neutral get up to speed, 1st. 2nd. 3rd. and through the lights. So now what? can't simply shut off I will torch the transmission bearings. Cant just back off the throttle compression would cause the rear to come around (El Mirage), thought about pull chute then back-off??
Now here is what I have been told, You can pull back through 3rd.,2nd.,1st. and Neutral quickly (non-ratchet type) and that it should be fine.. Not super comfy with that but so far I have not figured this one out. What would be nice is N 1 2 3 N.
So anyone out there using the C4?

Thanks Guys,
Chris
Chris Campbell
2017 #203 G/GR El mirage record 150.771
2020 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 180.828
6/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 185.488
9/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 194.450

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 08:55:57 PM »
With a direct drive you need to run a clutch type flywheel so you can pull your foot out of it during or after a run & not lock up the rear tires. A standard pattern valve body is better then you can go from 3 to N after you're on the laundry. If you want to kill the engine while still making speed you'll need a lube pump, either a belt drive off the back of the trans or an electric unit.
  Sid.

Offline ronnieroadster

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 09:28:00 PM »
Chris
 Like Sid said standard shift pattern.
    I originally ran a C-4 with the reverse valve body left over from my drag racing days. First ever inspection of my LSR car the tech guys put me in the car and watched me shift during an imaginary run while just standing still. I shifted 1-2-3 then they said ok now you just completed the run go to neutral. Well as you wrote only the way to neutral is downshifting and that my friend is dangerous that will cause the rear tires to lock up which is not safe as was also pointed out by the tech guys during my inital inspection. My C-4 after that was converted to a manual valve body with a standard shift pattern after a run you can go directly from third to neutral.
   My C-4 combination for the last six years including at Speedweek 2017 has worked perfectly. This year every pass was over 200 with a final class record of 225.003 that's in three miles with a torque converter and no push off.  
   With the no torque converter coasting in neutral after a pass should work fine. But whatever you do don't flat tow the car for any great distance if you do the rear tail housing bushing is sure to get damaged since its not getting any lube.
 If you need a standard manual valve body I have an extra in stock.
 Ronnieroadster
  
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 09:34:39 PM by ronnieroadster »
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Offline Happy Pappy

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 09:36:53 AM »
Totally understand the forward shift pattern, makes complete sense after the run. So how do you start when being pushed off? In 1st?

Thank you for your reply's

Chris
Chris Campbell
2017 #203 G/GR El mirage record 150.771
2020 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 180.828
6/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 185.488
9/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 194.450

Offline Happy Pappy

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 09:40:59 AM »
Almost forgot... "Clutch type flywheel"?? Can you point me in a direction, never heard of that for an automatic trans.

Thank you Sid,
Chris
Chris Campbell
2017 #203 G/GR El mirage record 150.771
2020 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 180.828
6/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 185.488
9/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 194.450

Offline RichFox

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 10:47:33 AM »
Rick Yacoucci has a C4 and is in your area. Have you asked him?

Offline Happy Pappy

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 11:22:20 AM »
Googled him... Thank you.

Chris
Chris Campbell
2017 #203 G/GR El mirage record 150.771
2020 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 180.828
6/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 185.488
9/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 194.450

Offline Calkins

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 11:58:18 AM »
I have a C4 that my machine shop had tried in a dirt car.  He put a hand valve on it with a fake (direct drive) convertor.  A hose comes off the pump, threw the hand valve, and dumps into the pan.  Other than that, I know nothing about it.  Companies like TCI sell kits with a hand or foot (pedal) valve for Powerglides.  Would that work?
Justin Calkins - Iowa Falls, Iowa  USA

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 12:01:37 PM »
Almost forgot... "Clutch type flywheel"?? Can you point me in a direction, never heard of that for an automatic trans.

Thank you Sid,
Chris
An auto "flex" plate is a floppy bitch without a converter bolted to it plus it has no flywheel effect by it's self, you can get that back with a clutch type flywheel. The TCI drive has multiple snap ring grooves for different spacing positions, if it's still too long you'll have to put a spacer between the engine & trans, just like a block protector plate. Also by the rules you will need a flywheel shield & a planetary trans shield or blanket.
  Sid.

Offline Happy Pappy

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 12:33:10 PM »
OK Now I get the clutch type flywheel :-) Unfortunately TCI is pretty much powerglide only for that particular product., "Not for a C-4".
Yeah we got the blanket covered.
Talked with Rick, super nice guy need to introduce my self to him at the next El Mo Run. He suggest to just run a torque converter. Makes sense for El Mirage, no push off therefore getting the power down in a shorter distance + Engine harmonic transfer deadened with a fluid coupling. Just going to leave some HP on the table.
Been trying for a week or so to get hold of  Pro Trans in Lancaster no luck as of yet. Been told he may have some answers also.

Thank you all for the help, still need to figure out whats gonna work.

Chris
Chris Campbell
2017 #203 G/GR El mirage record 150.771
2020 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 180.828
6/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 185.488
9/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 194.450

Offline Calkins

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 12:57:18 PM »
I have been doing a bunch of research the past year or so on building a drag race C4.  Everything I have read points to Performance Automatic being the go to guys for Ford automatics.  But, there is always someone that offers this part or that part that is better.

http://www.performanceautomatic.com
Justin Calkins - Iowa Falls, Iowa  USA

Offline Happy Pappy

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 01:07:50 PM »
I had talked with Bill at performance and he had nothing that would give me the neutral without running back through the gears.

Chris
Chris Campbell
2017 #203 G/GR El mirage record 150.771
2020 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 180.828
6/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 185.488
9/21 #62 C/AIR El Mirage record 194.450

Offline Calkins

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 02:11:14 PM »
The Kent Fuller streamliner runs a shorty C4.  But, I have no contact info for anyone on the team.  Just a thought...

http://www.kentfullerstreamliner.com

« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 08:55:16 PM by Calkins »
Justin Calkins - Iowa Falls, Iowa  USA

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 06:41:06 PM »
I had talked with Bill at performance and he had nothing that would give me the neutral without running back through the gears.

Chris
If you shut the engine off in any gear you're going to have neutral.
  Sid.

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: need some help on using the C4 in my roadster
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 03:32:51 PM »
We run a C4 with no torque converter.  We push off in neutral, drop it in to gear and go 1-2-3 and then roll it back into neutral in one motion at the end of the run.  Ratchet shifter won't work.  In the old car we just had a lever with no real shift mechanism.  You just moved it and could feel the detents.  Worked okay but you could misshift pretty easily.  New car has someone's off the shelf shifter in it and out of the box, it wouldn't have worked.  My brother had a customer shift gate plate made and now we can do what I described above.  Works great.  He'll sell you a shift gate if you need one.
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