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Author Topic: Bonneville Course Prep  (Read 9435 times)
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Sumner
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« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2017, 11:56:04 AM »

First I'll second the 'well said' statement.

....And no, there won't ever be Bonneville dirt racing - unless that mucky swamp mud somehow totally and completely dries out...

Nate I think we have been driving on the dirt there now for a bit.  Mike's international course has been pretty much in the dirt at both ends, at least when I was there.  When I ran the long course a couple years ago it sure seemed like the end of the shut down was pretty much dirt.

I'm aware of breaking through the salt into the mud underneath in the past but I haven't seen as much of that now.  I think the reason is that there basically is no salt on top of the mud anymore so the mud can dry out.  In the good days when the salt was thicker it prevented the mud under it from drying out.

Not saying I want B'ville to turn into a dirt track but we might not have a say in that any longer and evidently never did have a say that actually got the powers to be to do anything differently,

Sumner


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« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2017, 12:59:32 PM »

Where was it a year or so ago that Carbiliner made its dirt (playa) runs?

That was out in Nevada (Lovelock). The first trip there we had a good track - we had 7 miles of track but only the middle 4 were great. The rest of the track was loose (talcum consistency) and you couldn't drive on it without being dusted out.

The second trip out we didn't even have the middle of the track. We had dust issues over the entire lake-bed. Not that we couldn't run, but the traction was a little less than first time and we had more dust in the cockpit.

Even on it's best days that area would not support a full on LSR effort. IT works well for testing and depending on track conditions (highly variable) you may be able to do an independent run for a record. You would not be able to move Speed Week to such a venue.

Access to the site is very remote - off camber turns, switchbacks and dirt road for 30+ miles. Even the closest civilization wouldn't support much more than a dozen race teams.

Try this link, it will show you the route from I80 to one of the access roads onto the lake-bed.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40.0611341,-118.6520501/40.2762576,-118.9954403/@40.1471051,-118.9188343,38721m/data=!3m1!1e3 

This is a view from I80 looking towards the mountains you are climbing over. Rough numbers show climbing almost 2,000 feet from I80 to the peak and descending another 2,000 feet to the basin floor. No guide-rails, off camber hair-pin turns and a warning to not attempt to traverse the road AT ALL if there is ANY rain.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0610752,-118.6520508,3a,60y,289.01h,89.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMPSErP-F0bI2Og7aJNsX2Q!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

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« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2017, 01:19:45 PM »

I would agree with you there Sumner.
The only reason there is more area coverage this year is due to the 2+ft of run-off water that was contained on the flats for a longer than usual time to leach more product before being drained off to Intrepid. I would explain the place right now as being like one big-a$$ golf ball.
The salt was actually warm at the Tnt & that is probably drying out the the top of the brine dirt base & there were bugs like I've never seen before including grasshoppers.
  Sid.
 
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jl222
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« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2017, 04:58:17 PM »

  Nathan...don't you think the BNI should be the ones paying to have something built? I know a couple of racers
with shops that could do it.

   Going to the meetings time after time would be [ Jesus Christ ] a pain in the Acura. I attended the SCTA rep meetings in Anahiem when I was a club rep and it was at least a 4 hr trip there and back.  Hey I was there when your dad lobbied to lower the driving age so you could drive shocked

 I think the BNI can take suggestions without being at a meeting. I know that at the SCTA club rep meetings only the reps were supposed to have a voice. But SCTA did report on any communications they had received during that part
of the meeting agenda.

  So writing a letter might be better.

  As you now know the 222 car has been running at El Mirage before you were old enough to drive and when the course conditions were good at the start and before any dunes were cut. Both Troy and I getting into the El Mirage
200 mile club and setting a record at 229+mph in AA/BGALT which we still have.

 The course was better in the earlier years and I think part of the problem is the dairies wells, pumping the ground
water and the result is the water going down the sink those sink holes instead of evaporating longer on top. If it really got good and flooded maybe we could have a good course again.    

  And I don't think the SCTA would have allowed loose dirt to be spread on the course.

                    JL222              

  Edit... the El Mirage sink holes are just small holes no more than 6'' that The SCTA clubs used to plug with wet mud.
  This was long ago and I haven't heard much about it lately. Any how not like Florida sinkholes smiley

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:39:14 PM by jl222 » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2017, 02:41:47 PM »

John, I certainly don't want to take away from the fact that you went to a board meeting once over 20 years ago but I was talking about more relevant times - namely, now.  The point I was trying to make, which you seemed to miss, was to get involved and do more than just talk about it here. 

BTW you can call Bill Lattin and ask him about the boonie removal since he was the one who did it. 

See ya on the salt. 
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« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2017, 05:31:53 PM »

John, I certainly don't want to take away from the fact that you went to a board meeting once over 20 years ago but I was talking about more relevant times - namely, now.  The point I was trying to make, which you seemed to miss, was to get involved and do more than just talk about it here.  

BTW you can call Bill Lattin and ask him about the boonie removal since he was the one who did it.  

See ya on the salt.  

  I was a club rep and went every month. Your confused about that and evidently don't understand a club's rep's
responsibility.

  I guess it's hard for you to grasp what an effort it would be for members to do what you suggest and what an effort
it was to attend. Foggy was working for me at the time and we would quit work early, go home, get changed and drive 4 hrs to get there in time. Don't forget about the drive home. Hey if you live close go for it.

  Writing a letter about suggestions should be read at the SCTA meeting under communications.

                                     JL222

    
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 05:36:25 PM by jl222 » Logged
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« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2017, 09:42:57 PM »

 I hate to even bring this up but after all of the good press and hard work by Save The Salt, has anything happened other than a few politicians sending letters of support?
  I think We all could use a few words of encouragement from someone at STS.
                                                                                      Thanks to all who have worked so hard for hopefully a good outcome
                                                                                                                      Bob Drury

  SAVE THE SALT is trying to get more brine pumped and Intrepid has pumped for years were is it?

  Instead of so many tons of salt, the agreement should be so many inches of salt when dry.
  
  Has SAVE THE SALT even figured out after 600,000 tons have been pumped what the increase in depth on the salt flats should be?

  Not sure of total area but one of us could figure it out.

  Yeah the only solution is more salt and a lawsuit [ BNI and Intrepid]?  

                       JL222

 Edit... BNI, Save the salt, Utah , verses BLM and Intrepid.

    
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 11:27:15 AM by jl222 » Logged
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« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2017, 11:01:54 PM »

To cover our entire race area with just one (1) inch of salt would take an estimated 20 million tons.
With 600,000 tons delivered annually (debatable) you do the math on how long it would take, especially considering how much is being sucked back out every winter.

Willi
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« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2017, 11:39:38 PM »

With 600,000 tons delivered annually (debatable) you do the math...........

Is that 600,000 tons of salt or 600,000 tons of brine?

Big difference.
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« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2017, 10:51:26 AM »

Either way, Mike, it's just a drop in the bucket but it's all we have right now.

Willi
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« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2017, 10:55:42 AM »

With 600,000 tons delivered annually (debatable) you do the math...........

Is that 600,000 tons of salt or 600,000 tons of brine?

Big difference.

   Save the Salt's site claims 600,000 tons of salt, not brine, and if ''Salt's'' estimate is right shocked

   Has anyone from Save The Salt collected a gallon or more of salt brine on a regular basis and let it evaporate
to physically see the percentage of salt left?

  Same deal on leach lines?

                              JL222
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 11:39:45 AM by jl222 » Logged
Sumner
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« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2017, 02:31:23 PM »

Some interesting info from BLM reports that now seem to have disappeared from their site.

The first for 2003...



This shows a salt loss to mining then of about 850,000 tons a year with a laydown average of 1.2 million tons a year for a net gain over 5 years of only 2 million tons of salt.  If they currently are taking 850,000 tons a year and replacing 600,000 tons then there is still a net loss  cry cry cry.

Also in the past I've felt that the wells they are using for the lay-down are actually contributing to the decline on the salt's thickness and I feel the following backs that up...

In this paper...



They reference the problems that drawing from those wells is most likely drawing water and salt with it from the racing surface.  



Be sure to read paragraph 3 above as they are referring mainly to  us there.

The BLM has long known all of the effects of the mining as there have been studies done way before these that have predicted the decline of the salt flats,

Sumner


« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:34:34 PM by Sumner » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2017, 04:40:44 PM »




Main image may be a bit small to read but its from the information about the mining in the area at the interpretive centre
other relevant comment is on the right of the full size poster
"The process of extracting minerals from the flats requires the simultaneous draining and flooding of vast areas "



Returning the brine to the flats is not for our benefit merely part of the mining process

In my opinion the only way to reverse the loss is to stop the pumps, let the evaporation basin return to normal hydrology bringing the salt to the surface again, its never going to be as thick as it once was
     

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« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2017, 11:32:12 PM »

 cheers cheers cheers
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« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2017, 09:57:45 AM »

STS & the Utah Alliance don't want the mining to go away because they believe the pumping program is helping to replenish the salt. Time has proven to me that is not the case & all that is doing is helping to move more product in the slurry. This year there is more area coverage than last year but I believe that is only due to more leaching from the larger runoff (depth) on the flats than normal. While you're in Wendover, take a drive up to the top of a hill so you can see how full the settling ponds are at Intrepid.
I've never seen the pumping in action, can anybody explain how & where that happens?
Supposedly it was going on this year when the runoff water level on the salt was over 2ft deep but then they pulled the plug & drained it all off back to the plant.
I'm having a little trouble understanding the logistics of that, can anybody clarify that for the rest of us? STS or Alliance??
  Sid.
 
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