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Author Topic: Bonneville Course Prep  (Read 11803 times)
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jl222
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« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2017, 01:48:04 PM »

Could racing continue on the Bonneville Dirt Flats . Serious question .

  Yes if watered. Hears why I think so. Every one thinks the high horsepower cars tear up the track and cause marbles
at El Mirage. But why is it that our 222 Camaro accelerates Dodge good [ once 152 mph in 10.2 seconds] then breaks
loose when the track gets bad. and our spoiler is producing more down force at speed? If the spinning tires causes the marbles why isn't the track as bad at the start as further down?

  I think it's because the low pressure behind the cars sucks the pebbles up between the cracks and causes the marbles. I have a chipped asphalt driveway and even at 10 mph there's a cloud of dust behind the car.  

 Watering would help keep the pebbles in place

 I lobbied for this when I was a club rep 20 yrs ago for El Mirage. They finally did it but after the races to keep the dust down.

  Try it at Elmo Ist but the day before. Test how much off track.

  Problem is how far water truck goes and getting the water. Maybe just a 3 mile course. Hey over 300mph a El Mirage.

      jl222
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 02:00:26 PM by jl222 » Logged
GW
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« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2017, 03:22:21 PM »

Where was it a year or so ago that Carbiliner made its dirt (playa) runs?
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maj
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« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2017, 05:14:26 PM »

That will lift the thin crust up and level the dirt , Then we can have a long version of El Mirage

 The self leveling system can be turned off and height control controlled by operator.

 Also by raising the hitch to different holes varies the cutting depth with the top being the least.

 Serrated blades are available for graders and I think for these.

 Just trying to come up with something better. Like maybe a field plane and drag instead of blade.

  The simplest solution is a longer drag. I have seen pictures of water  barrels on top of the Bville drag.

  I understand that BNI were purchasing chains to drag behind drag, so their trying.

                      JL222


As a cropping farmer we use landplane/graders , both short laser controlled ones and 100ft long landplane.
For them to work properly they need a ripped even consistancy surface , they dont keep level control well over hard surface either riding out or pulling in , and in my opinion the salt crust would just separate at the mud line and gather
The short angled blades Cook is using at Bolivia are working there as they slice the pressure ridges and other irregulaties off an existing flat hard and very thick surface
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« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2017, 06:00:41 PM »

"then breaks loose when the track gets bad."

Wide tires?
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« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2017, 07:02:13 PM »

Switching the narrative a bit, the course condition reports from the test-n-tune were not so good whereas Course 1 is possibly 8-9 miles and in better condition than recent years.  Help... ?!?!
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2017, 07:29:09 PM »

I moved this stuff from the WoS topoic to here since lotsa folks will be wanting to know for SW.  Anyway, here's a release I got from JoAnn a while ago:

PRESS RELEASE
BONNEVILLE SPEED WEEK 2017
The SCTA/BNI course prep team has been to the salt in the last month- two times- with many hours of grooming and preparation to have the courses ready for Speed Week. The good news is that there is more salt on the entire area that we race on. Problems with the salt are that we have very hard dry spots and are having a difficult time cutting the high spots getting them as smooth as possible. There are other areas that are soft and thin that is much better than last year. We currently can report that conditions are moderately better than 2016. As you know, in 2016 we had a three course meet. This year we have groomed 4 courses. Course number four, the rookie course, is firm and stable as always. Course number three- our short course- is good to five miles, only timed to the three mile. Course two, which was our 2016 long course, and is much better than last year, is 8 to 10 miles long. If our usual number one long course does not cure adequately by Speed Week, we will most likely be using our number two course as our long course as we did last year.  Our plan is to get to the salt early enough to continue grooming course number one and course number two so that we can have a four course race meet as usual. (Mother Nature willing) At present time we have three courses, Long 8 to 10 miles, short 5 miles and a rookie 3 miles (timed to the 1 mile). See you on the salt!
Bill Lattin, BNI Chairman                     Pat McDowell, SCTA President and Race Director
               
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jl222
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« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2017, 09:40:25 PM »

"then breaks loose when the track gets bad."

Wide tires?

  You spun, didn't know you had wide tires. Or all the others that had problems.

             JL222
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 09:41:58 PM by jl222 » Logged
Stainless1
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« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2017, 09:49:07 PM »

Can't believe you took that bait JL...
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« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2017, 11:43:40 PM »

Can't believe you took that bait JL...


   Yea but rolleyes Just can't resist grin

           JL222
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jl222
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« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2017, 11:59:42 AM »

That will lift the thin crust up and level the dirt , Then we can have a long version of El Mirage

 The self leveling system can be turned off and height control controlled by operator.

 Also by raising the hitch to different holes varies the cutting depth with the top being the least.

 Serrated blades are available for graders and I think for these.

 Just trying to come up with something better. Like maybe a field plane and drag instead of blade.

  The simplest solution is a longer drag. I have seen pictures of water  barrels on top of the Bville drag.

  I understand that BNI were purchasing chains to drag behind drag, so their trying.

                      JL222


As a cropping farmer we use landplane/graders , both short laser controlled ones and 100ft long landplane.
For them to work properly they need a ripped even consistancy surface , they dont keep level control well over hard surface either riding out or pulling in , and in my opinion the salt crust would just separate at the mud line and gather
The short angled blades Cook is using at Bolivia are working there as they slice the pressure ridges and other irregulaties off an existing flat hard and very thick surface

  Not sure but it looks like the tractor scrapers are turned backwards for more of a smoothing edge,
  Wow...8 tractors =mucho bucks shocked Where is the bucks coming from? Edit ..Looks like TOP 1 OIL  cool See pics on Bolivia post.

   the Miskin field plane pulled by tractor with load sensing draft control looks like it handles all the problems you have.

   Blade turned backwards would help.

  Did you watch all of video showing field plane going up a hlll and over the top?

              JL222
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 12:59:12 PM by jl222 » Logged
maj
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« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2017, 04:36:03 PM »

Its the loose surface that lets that work,
If we made the race surface loose enough to level with a blade to remove the washboard effect it could be years untill it was stable enough to drive on again

For example look at the drain that used to cross the track from the roads end to the pits, always a soft area after a bit of traffic
and who knows how many years since that was put in and later filled

Nature has provided the best surface , left to its own with an evaporation pan naturally bringing the salts to the surface it would again
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« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2017, 05:53:54 PM »

You've all got cars and a problem race track.
I've got a great track but a problem car.
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« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2017, 01:51:25 PM »

You will do the necessary fix for the car.

FREUD
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NathanStewart
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« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2017, 10:50:24 AM »

Could racing continue on the Bonneville Dirt Flats . Serious question .

  Yes if watered. Hears why I think so. Every one thinks the high horsepower cars tear up the track and cause marbles at El Mirage. But why is it that our 222 Camaro accelerates Dodge good [ once 152 mph in 10.2 seconds] then breaks loose when the track gets bad. and our spoiler is producing more down force at speed? If the spinning tires causes the marbles why isn't the track as bad at the start as further down?

Don't want to de-rail this thread but there's a reason why the first half of the track at El Mo is very good.  Years ago, there were a lot of boonie bushes encroaching on our racing area.  After the end of the racing season, a crew went out there with a grader and knocked all the boonies out and then took the dirt from their left over mounds and spread it out all over the far west end of the course area.  Now I can't be 100% certain of this but it's my theory that the winter rains came, flooded the lake bed and distributed all the boonie dirt over the first half of the course area. Then it dried and baked in the sun and "cured" into a surface that's akin to concrete.  If you walk or slowly drive down the course, you can see where the "concrete" ends and the surface returns to it's normal consistency.  It's a clear black and white, night and day difference from the good dirt to the bad dirt.  And the good dirt didn't exist until they did the boonie removal.  I don't think the guys that knocked out the boonies and spread the dirt around had idea this was going to happen but it did and we'd probably fix our bad course problems if the same thing was done again - this time on the east end of the course area.  So again, El Mo track conditions doesn't have anything to do with Bonneville course prep but now you know.

And no, there won't ever be Bonneville dirt racing - unless that mucky swamp mud somehow totally and completely dries out. 

BTW, if someone really thinks they've got a better way of doing the grooming at Bonneville, it's not likely that those that have already been doing it forever are going to be that receptive to someone's input who's never done it once.  Now I'm not saying the powers that be aren't open to change or improving things but talking about it here ain't gunna do nuttin'.  If you really think you can do it better, then you should commit yourself to doing so and could probably start by at least attending the BNI meetings where these kinds of things get talked about.  And if you actually really want to make a difference, don't just go to one meeting - go and keep going.  Keep going until you start to actually get involved and get involved to the point where YOU have the ability to start imparting an actual change.  If you don't believe in your cause enough to go beyond talking about it here and actually standing up in front of the BNI and saying hey guys you can do this better and here's how then nothing's going to happen.  Those drags they use to groom the courses didn't just appear on the salt one day.  They were built.  There have been hundreds if not thousands of hours put into prepping the SCTA/BNI courses.  If you have a better idea, build it and go out there are show them that your idea is in fact better.  The proof is in the proof. 

Now I'm not saying put up or shut up... even though it really sounds like it.  Talking and sharing ideas and coming up with stuff is great.  But actually doing something about it will take more effort.  Just sayin'.   
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« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2017, 11:33:50 AM »

Well said Nathan!
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