Author Topic: So close, yet so far away...  (Read 6436 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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So close, yet so far away...
« on: September 15, 2016, 10:52:55 PM »

Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2016, 10:57:05 PM »
Quote
Not Found
The requested URL /Bulletin/Series 1/BULETIN 1 PDF/Feldiorean_D.I.pdf was not found on this server.

Apache/2.2.6 (Win32) mod_ssl/2.2.6 OpenSSL/0.9.8g PHP/5.2.5 Server at webbut.unitbv.ro Port 80

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2016, 11:16:59 PM »
This is the paper titled "The Influence of the Cam Profile Design on Cam and Tappet Hertz Stresses and Wear" by D.I. Feldiorean in Rumania.  It is in English, more-or-less.  www.mdesign.ftn.uns.ac.rs/pdf/2010/087-090_for_web.pdf

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2016, 11:23:46 PM »
It worked.  Now the hard part is done.

The wear on the Triumph lifters is exactly like on the photo near the end of the paper.  I am trying to cure the problem using different materials and cam design.  The article discusses how to reduce the problem by using lobe shape.  This might be the answer to my problem and I cannot understand the article.

Anyone who can explain this to me or refer me to an article I can understand will be really helpful. 

Offline tauruck

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2016, 11:57:51 PM »
Mushroom lifters Bo. They're magic.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2016, 12:08:52 AM »
This is Oregon.  Magic mushrooms grow here. 

Offline rouse

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 09:51:10 AM »
My Norton blocked me from going to that website, "Blocked as Dangerous" was the notification?

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Offline Stan Back

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 11:30:46 AM »
It's probably a Triumph website -- didn't want to let a Norton in.
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 11:39:11 AM »
Rouse, you answered my question.  I was looking for another address for that article and I found this one.  It tells me what I need to know and what to do.  www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/50307904X06002472

It is "Mathematical Modeling of Layered Contact Mechanics of Cam-Tappet Conjunction" by M. Teodorescu in Rumania

Offline Interested Observer

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 12:07:59 PM »
Wobbly,
That “English” translation of the paper is a sorry mess, and it is not surprising that it is hard to understand.  In fact, I would consider it incoherent and essentially useless for any number of reasons.  It almost seems like the translation was made from an original that was missing a few pages.  The “conclusion” section seems to have dropped out of the blue, with little relationship to the body of the paper.  Something must be missing there.  This really seems like somebody had a problem with worn camshafts and gave it to a graduate student to study as a project.

The only interesting thing is the graphical representation showing how the maximum stress locations move from the nose of the cam to the flank and from the center of the lifter to its outer region, depending on the rpm.  And even that is misleading in that it shows it as symmetrical when, in actuality, the loading on the lifting ramp is going to be greater than the closing ramp. 

No mention is ever made of how they supposedly would change the cam contour to lessen the problem.

In the end, a cam is necessarily designed to actuate the valves with the contour arranged to minimize the contact loading while still  achieving the desired motion.  Nothing in this paper gives any guidance on how to do that other than the hint about the momentary non-hydrodynamic (or near non-hydrodynamic) lubrication situation that may coincidentally arise at or near the location of maximum contact stress (on the cam flank and outer region of the lifter) during valve lift at higher rpm’s. 

Your cam/lifter wear problem is really one of material chemistry, comparative harnesses, surface conditions, and lubrication.   Can you fit any oil squirters in there?


(The second, sciencedirect, article is said to be unavailable)

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 12:08:42 PM »
The link does not work and I cannot figure out why.  Google on the title and you go right to the article.  This is what I gather from the article.

The information I will have available are Hertzian stresses on the cam-tappet interface per degree cam rotation.  These best represent cam and tappet materials with near equal springiness.  They do not accurately represent using a softer and springier cam with a hard DLC coated tappet.

The cam lobe squashes down on the hard coated tappet.  There is a shear stress on the tappet face between the hard facing and the softer steel underneath.  This will delaminate the two if the bond thickness is insufficient.  

The shear stress between the facing and the base material is less when a very thin coating is applied or a very thick one.  Intermediate thicknesses have the highest interface shear stress.

All of this says that the DLC coating needs a lot of care to get right in both design and application.  More things to go wrong, as WW looks at it.

The cam and tappet flatten against each other when they make contact.  The tappet deflects less due to the increased stiffness from the hard coating.  This means the cam deflects more.  The cam deflection can be increased to where it is too close the elastic limit of deformation for the cam steel.  This can cause a fatigue failure of the cam material.

Other articles tell me the lubricant additive package needs to be specialized to work with DLC coatings.  GL-5 rating will work, I think, but am not completely sure.  Other articles tell me that polishing the cams and lifters achieves the same result as DLC coatings with out the side effects.  That is what I will probably do, and it is to analyze Hertzian stresses on prospective cam lobes and minimize them, use conventional materials, and use the light break in spring method with 50-weight oil, rather than 40 weight.    

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: So close, yet so far away...
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2016, 12:11:52 PM »
Thanks for the advice, Interested Observer.  The second article is easy to understand, laid out in a logical manner, and list lots of good references.