Author Topic: K & L Dynamometer  (Read 13029 times)

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Offline Koncretekid

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K & L Dynamometer
« on: September 10, 2016, 10:48:35 PM »


I found this on Craigslist and couldn't resist.  Unfortunately, the computer is not reading the floppy so I can't use it as is.  K&L Supply whose name is on the manual claim no knowledge of it although they sold it around 1995.  They referred me to the Carlson company who was the manufacturer, but they don't seem to want to help me get it working either.  Does anyone have any knowledge of these machines?
Tom
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2016, 12:59:08 AM »
Nice score Tom.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

My bet is you need some kid who understands electronics and computers. He'll likely be able to hook it up to a modern laptop and make everything right. Google is probably going to be your very close friend for a while.

Pete

Offline fordboy628

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2016, 07:33:16 AM »
Tom,

What kind of PC is it?   Does it even "boot up" at all?    If it is an XT or AT you are going to need somebody older and experienced with "Frankencomputers".    There used to be programs for PC testing which evaluated performance, etc.   An older computer tech might still have those diagnostic diskettes.   Try cleaning the diskette drive, older computers stored in adverse environments can sometimes be "resuscitated" back to life.   Or you might have to replace the drive.   In any event the first place to look is the aforementioned older PC repair technician who has ACTUALLY worked on them.   Another tip is that the "BIOS" might need to be "upgraded" to recognize this millenia, just to get it to "boot up".

It also would not hurt to ask the manufacturer for the original computer specs as delivered.   At least you would know what it is supposed to be there, if they are co-operative.

Or you can call Kevin @ Performance Trends to see if he has a package to replace/upgrade the data accumulation.   This assumes that the brake and other mechanical bits are in, or can be put into working order.

This is a great addition to your arsenal, but it is going to be a "project" in itself.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
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Offline Koncretekid

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 09:19:00 AM »
Nice score Tom.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

My bet is you need some kid who understands electronics and computers. He'll likely be able to hook it up to a modern laptop and make everything right. Google is probably going to be your very close friend for a while.

Pete

I have a daughter and her partner who are both electrical engineers, who have no clue about the older computers!  Luckily, they may have friends who do.
Tom,

What kind of PC is it?   Does it even "boot up" at all?    If it is an XT or AT you are going to need somebody older and experienced with "Frankencomputers".    There used to be programs for PC testing which evaluated performance, etc.   An older computer tech might still have those diagnostic diskettes.   Try cleaning the diskette drive, older computers stored in adverse environments can sometimes be "resuscitated" back to life.   Or you might have to replace the drive.   In any event the first place to look is the aforementioned older PC repair technician who has ACTUALLY worked on them.   Another tip is that the "BIOS" might need to be "upgraded" to recognize this millenia, just to get it to "boot up".

It also would not hurt to ask the manufacturer for the original computer specs as delivered.   At least you would know what it is supposed to be there, if they are co-operative.

Or you can call Kevin @ Performance Trends to see if he has a package to replace/upgrade the data accumulation.   This assumes that the brake and other mechanical bits are in, or can be put into working order.

This is a great addition to your arsenal, but it is going to be a "project" in itself.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

The PC is a 486 IBM type that was manufactured in 1995. It does boot up with a couple of error messages regarding the CMOS drive and the floppy disc drive.  The CMOS drive has a lithium 3v battery which apparently operates the RAM and communicates with the BIOS (I learned these terms overnight), which I understand must be replaced every 5 years.  So I investigated and found out that the battery is spot welded to 2 flat metal contacts.  Now there's a good idea - - weld the battery connectors in place.

I have a lead on some old computer techs which I'll try this week. There is a "Data acquisition" board in the computer that can be transferred to another computer if necessary, and I just hope the floppy disc I have (the original one) is not compromised.

This dyno is an accelerometer type unit, so is basically just a very heavy drum with a Hall Effect or other magnetic pickup and a hand held button to start the timing cycle. Knowing the inertia of the drum and the time it takes to accelerate it from a given RPM to maximum RPM will generate a torque and hence a horsepower curve with the correct software.

Thanks for the name you supplied, and I will be contacting him if necessary.

Tom

We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2016, 10:18:27 AM »
Tom:

PM sent.

Pete

Offline RansomT

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2016, 10:36:11 PM »
If you can figure out the settings and "if" you can get the thing to communicate with a new computer.

Here is a link to free dyno software.  It's what the folks use at Dayton Dyno...

https://www.sportdevices.com/download.php

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 02:16:13 PM »
Got the Dyno working last week, with some new(used) acquisition hardware from Jacksoni, and some new software from Performance Trends.  I haven't been able to try the race bike yet, as I've already had a noise complaint - - from my wife!  So I'm working on a muffler system using a 4" x 30" x 7" truck muffler, but am waiting for some proper hose.

Here is the BSA B50SS street bike on for testing:


From the back.  I had to buy a new computer, which was cheaper than getting an older model upgraded.  So far, so good.


The pickup uses a magnet epoxied to the wheel.

Funny how accurate photos can be.  While reviewing this pic I see that the magnet has already picked up a lot of "fuzz" which I hadn't noticed before.

And I'm working on a starter motor, as my race bikes have no starter or even a kick starter.  This is the mechanism but the wheel that is mounted on the starter is only a dummy as I'm waiting for a proper polyurethane faced drive wheel.



This is the starter linkage.  Hopefully, I'll get the muffler set up and the starter working next week.


The torque and horsepower numbers I get will only be relavent for making improvements because I can't determine the exact moment of inertia of the wheel.  I've made an estimate and calibrated the horsepower to a stock Yamaha SR500, which was claimed to have about 32 horsepower.

I'll post more photos when I get the race bike on for tuning.

Tom

« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 02:19:56 PM by Koncretekid »
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 02:31:17 PM »
Nicely done Tom. That should be a great addition to your program.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

Offline grumm441

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2017, 09:09:59 PM »
can you find out how much the wheel weighs?
G
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2017, 10:18:58 PM »
The numbers are just numbers.

Finding out if you're making improvements is what he can do now.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Stainless1

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 10:20:39 PM »
and after Bonneville, you will have a speed to go with a number....  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2017, 10:34:08 PM »
can you find out how much the wheel weighs?
G
The short answer is no.  There is a number stamped on the perimeter of the wheel which reads 14.xxxxx, which a tech from Dynojet told me is the weight in slugs which equals about 460 lbs, but that number does not work for the weight of the wheel.  It is way heavier than that.  The sides are solid and I've drilled 2.1" into them, ditto the drum itself.  But it's apparently not solid because assuming it is solid (1308 lbs.) results in too much horsepower for the little Yamaha.  The Performance Trends software offers a dyno spec window that lets you enter parts of the wheel and the material (steel) and then does the calculation for rotational moment of inertia.  By using 2-1/2" for the two side flanges, and a little over 2" for the drum as well as a "coast down" test which determines the resistance of the rear wheel and chain, I arrived at the 32 horsepower I was looking for.  That's certainly good enough to make before and after comparisons of any changes I make.  It remains to be seen if I can dredge any more ponies out of the old BSA, but I'll try.  Unfortunately, I'll be going back to N.S. at the end of May, so I don't have a whole lot of time for any major changes.

Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline edinlr

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 11:40:08 PM »
Tom, one tip the manuals never tell you with this type dyno is to never use the bike's brakes to slow it down after a run, it will fry the brakes in seconds.  Lots of Dynojet operators have learned this lesson the hard way.
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Offline mergatroyd

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2017, 02:17:04 AM »
Also, it is imperative to tie the bike down in both directions... And don't try to bump start the motor from the speed after the run.
I have no idea what I'm doing... but it seems to be working!

Offline andychaos

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Re: K & L Dynamometer
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2017, 02:23:38 AM »
Tom could you take the Yam to another Dyno get some results then fiddle with the software to replicate it.
Good advice on overrun from the roller you will need to be careful with the BSA gearbox,i usually pull the clutch and use the dyno's brake to slow down then select neutral once stopped.