Are these legal leathers?

[JimW]

I need a specific answer as to the legality of a set of leathers I have found.
Can someone here tell me or Who can I send these questions (and pictures if necessary) to in order to get a definitive answer?

This is an all leather suit ? no fabric panels.  I know that this is good.

The zipper that zips the pants to the jacket is plastic ? I believe that this has to be replaced with a metal zipper.

There are perforations behind each knee.  I know the rules allow limited perforations.  There are 55 round holes, each 1/16 th inch in diameter, the holes spaced 5/8 of an inch from each other on a square grid pattern behind each knee.  Does this meet the limited perforation rule?

There are perforations under each arm.  Again 1/16 th inch holes on the same 5/8 th inch square grid pattern.  The pattern is six holes wide and 33 holes long (198 holes) and runs on the inside of the arm from about the elbow, to armpit, and about 11 inches down the side of the jacket on each side.  Does this meet the limited perforation rule?

The other zippers on the suit are plastic (jacket front, pants (6 inch zipper), end of each arm (4 inch zipper), end of each leg (8 inch zipper) and above each knee for a pad insert (5 inch zipper).  Are these ok as plastic or would they have to be replaced with metal?

If not legal for perforation reasons, is there an acceptable way to fill some or all of the holes?

This is a big expenditure for my meager budget.  I need to be sure I get it right.

Thanks.  A lot.

Jim.

[Nortonist 592]

Thats an interesting question.  I don't believe the perforations would be a problem.  The plastic zipper might.  I would e-mail Russ O'Daly the MC tech head.  You can get him at www.lsrmctech@adelphia.net.  If anyone can give you a definitive answer he can.  The last time I e-mailed him he came right back with an answer.

[JimW]

Thanks.  I dropped Russ an email.  I'll let you know what he says.

[donpearsall]

At Speedweek 2005 my leathers were failed at inspection because of perforations. I would not take a chance if I were you. No vents, no perforations. If you are at Bonneville there is just no way to get your leathers tailored.

I sewed and glued patches over the perforations and that made the inspectors happy.

Don

[firemanjim]

I'd say no also,based on the amount of perforations extending so far.You could get away with the back of the knee and armpit,but that much at the elbow area all the way up and down ----

[pdubu]

I had a similar set of leathers with perfs up the inside of the arms and down the sides.  About $100 at the leather tailor to have another layer sewn into place to cover the perfs with a handful of perfs left under each armpit.  Your cost may vary. Since I had it done during the busy time around Sturgis it took about three weeks to have them done. The actual work took a couple hours (one seam along each piece was actually split and sewn back together to keep things smoother).

[donpearsall]

The problem is that the SCTA rule book (if that is what you are going by) says LIMITED perforations are allowed. It does not define limited, so each inspector has his own idea of what limited is. One inspector would pass you, while another might not. Is limited 100 perforations or 2? That is a big problem.

You might get an "official" answer from SCTA M/C tech now, but that sure does not mean that the inspectors at an SCTA meet will adhere to it.

Don

[1212FBGS]

I think the test is if you can cover the holes up with your hand ,you might pass!!! the hole size is small so maybe if your hand can cover it!!! it is a big grey area and at bonneville we get a bunch of volinteer inspectors that show up and give there interpitation of the rules, another problem. the best thing to do is get them to El Mo in oct or Nov meet and have them take a look. See Russ or Tom!! no one else!!! Amanda at Speed Sport in Tulsa Ok is fantastic in leather repair and is very reasonable.she does a lot of road race rash repair and is usually slow in the off season (dec-jan) and has made me a complete SCTA legal suite. I know she also did Mark Myers from ohio leathers. I loaned Andy Jones a tube of silicone at bonneville to smeer over his holes. Didnt get the tube back so i assume he used the whole darn thing. I know he raced so he must have got them legal.
kent

[1212FBGS]

the area for repair was all leather but had too big of area and hole size.
the silicone was to cover and fill holes, not to fix cloth panels. i understand the reason for the rule is to prevent oil, gas, water to absorb into the cloth panels as well as the holes to allow hot or burning fluids to pass through the protection, compounding the injury. in recent years a rider had a motor blow covering the rider with hot oil. the bike and rider cought on fire and the cloth expantion panels cought on fire burninig his groin area, not fun!!! This rider i beleave also wore nomex under his leathers. The sweat soaked nomex turned into steam under his leathers and steam burns were the cause of most of the injuries. When a bike catches fire at 200mph what do ya do? ride it out or bail off? Holes or no holes? how bad do you want to be injured?
Another recent trend is for the riders to have a remote fuel tank and remove the tank that covers there motor allowing the rider to get about an inch lower. if the motor blows an fuel line or a turbo oil line and the bike catches fire he removed the first covering of protection. I remember when Brock Davidson had a nitrous backfire on his 97 gsxr750. he sprayed nos into his airbox. when the motor coughed, it litterly blew the nos filled airbox up and it ripped the steal gas tank mounting bolts out of the frame and blew him off his dragbike at about the 60ft. not good

[firemanjim]

The one rider injured was only burnt from steam when the hot oil got on his leathers.Not from cloth panels,ventilation holes,etc.He was sweating in his hot,unventilated leathers and got steam burns from his own sweat.Not from fire.This has been gone over here several times and the rider piped in with the real story.
We can get the same sort of burns under our turnouts when sweating alot in a nice hot fire.
I am still of the opinion the all leather rule is off target as the only leather items in our firefighting gear are our gloves,Nomex,Kevlar,etc are our best protections from the heat,yet these are the "cloth" panels being denied.

[JackD]

The one rider injured was only burnt from steam when the hot oil got on his leathers.Not from cloth panels,ventilation holes,etc.He was sweating in his hot,unventilated leathers and got steam burns from his own sweat.Not from fire.This has been gone over here several times and the rider piped in with the real story.
We can get the same sort of burns under our turnouts when sweating alot in a nice hot fire.
I am still of the opinion the all leather rule is off target as the only leather items in our firefighting gear are our gloves,Nomex,Kevlar,etc are our best protections from the heat,yet these are the "cloth" panels being denied.

The rulers making the rules never bothered to ask the very experienced rider about
 the mishap but chose to make a decision based in bad information with experience to match.
Safety measures in the fuel system demand the most attention and then rider protection
can deal with what is left more effectively
What you have is such a "KNEE JERK REACTION" that only results in a black eye.

***THAT WAS MY NICE***.

[panchop]

Hi I have been getting a MC ready for El Mirage / Bonneville this coming year. I have not been able to get my hands on one of the SCTA rule books yet and I want to have my leathers made. I had a couple of questions. My understanding is they must be ALL LEATHER, no perforations. Any thing else. is a speed hump allowable on a none streamlined bike? Do the zippers need to be made of brass or is nylon acceptable. Any guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks

[donpearsall]

I just re-read the rule book. It does not specify metal or plastic for the zipper.

No perforations (it says limited perfs, but just say no), and no cloth or non-leather anywhere. 100% leather.

You can have a speed hump if you are running Partial Streamlining class (such as APS) ONLY. The hump can ONLY be made of cloth or leather.

Don

[panchop]

thanks

[panchop]

cool, just ordered a SYED suit. No vents or perfs , 1 piece , back protecter, over size, 2 color, all leather. did I miss something?