Author Topic: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...  (Read 19843 times)

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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2016, 07:38:48 AM »
Stan Back said:  "...(more in one cylinder than the other -- a great torque-building secret)"

Shades of Scott Guthrie's TZ bikes! :-D
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Offline kustombrad

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2016, 12:49:44 PM »
Wow! I didn't realize I'd irk so many people questioning an aspect of one rule. Am I influenced by Hot Rod magazine and the stuff they do? Hardly! Did I ever say it WASN'T a "power adder" as Stainless commented? Of course not, it's a GREAT power adder! I was only questioning why it was classified as a "fuel" being it's only nitrogen/oxygen with NOTHING that actually burns. According to Milwaukee it "alters the chemistry" of the gas. It alters it no more than a blown deal. Normal air is roughly a 4:1 nitrogen/ogygen mix which is simple enough. Nitrous oxide is 2:1 nitrogen/oxygen, that's all. Nitrogen is inert and does nothing so all you're adding is 30% more oxygen than outside air. A normally aspirated engine sucks in 20% oxygen, so if we add one atmosphere of boost (double the roughly 14.6psi ambient pressure that we'll round out to 15lbs of boost) we just doubled the oxygen content (40%) of the engine, correct? Now we add double the original amount of fuel and we're back to our optimal 12:6-13:1AF ratio and have more HP. Did that alter the chemistry of the gas? Of course not. With Nitrous, ALL that's being added is more oxygen, that's it and being that it's very cold it makes the incoming air and fuel charge much more dense and "tricking" the engine into thinking it's under pressure. You add nitrous and then you add more fuel (to compensate for the extra 30% oxygen) again to a 12:6-13:1AF ratio and it's just like the blown motors. I wasn't intending to start a fight on here, but it is a forum so I was just asking a question about why it's considered a "fuel" and not a boost issue...

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2016, 02:37:01 PM »
How 'bout if I take a flyer and try to describe the reason nitrous puts an engine into fuel class per SCTA?

Because it's their rulebook and they can label nitrous as a fuel or a power adder or call it engine magic, that's why.  To keep things simple there are two classes for the various fuels (well, more if you include the outliers), and running nitrous does provide an advantage (assuming done properly :evil:) over the available race gasses we can run.

It's their football so they can write their own rules -- using whatever words they want.  As long as we all understand what they mean -- it's good.
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Offline kustombrad

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2016, 02:58:28 PM »
 :-D Then that's what we'll call it!

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2016, 03:25:57 PM »
The major combustion end products are carbon dioxide and water.  Gasoline supplies the hydrogen and carbon, in some cases, a little oxygen.  The atmosphere provides the all of the oxygen, and in the case of oxygenated fuels, most of the oxygen.  The oxygen, hydrogen, and carbon combine into the end products in the presence of an ignition source and this gives us the go-power.

Nitrous oxide has nitrogen and oxygen.  The nitrogen is inert.  The attached oxygen is not.  It combines with the hydrogen and carbon in the gasoline to make horsepower.  This requires more gasoline than if no nitrous oxide is used.  It is partially true that it does not burn, only the nitrogen part doesn't.  The oxygen part does and that is the fun factor that puts it in the same "fuel" class as a number of other oxygen bearing molecules.

Offline ronnieroadster

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2016, 05:48:41 PM »
Stan
    In my opinion your post has once again added a bit of light hearted humor to another interesting subject as well as put an important point across about the RULE's. The foundation of all land speed racing has always been gas is one class anything else your in the fuel class. Propane anyone?     :cheers:
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Offline MRK

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2016, 11:50:21 AM »
I think we all know that gas is a fuel. So maybe we should run gas burning cars in fuel class. But no. Fuel class is for engines that burn other than legal gas. Gas with Ox added is not legal. So this is the kind of thing you should just accept. Plenty of other things to worry about.

You can run in a fuel class with gasoline as your "fuel". It won't be scrutinized at impound since we don't check the "fuel" of vehicles running in a fuel class. Just a clarification for you all.  :cheers:
 
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." Steve McQueen

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2016, 12:45:45 PM »
Nitrous itself is NOT considered a fuel.  Supplementing your primary fuel with nitrous puts you in the fuel class because the engine's output will be higher than running on gasoline alone.  The point of the classes is to pair similar configurations together - first by engine displacement then by induction type and then by fuel.  You wouldn't run a blown motor against an unblown motor in the same class just like you wouldn't run a fuel motor against a gas motor.  Fuel meant nitro or at least methanol for a long time but when nitrous came around, it was placed at the same output level as other "fuels" thus, when you run nitrous, you're in the fuel class. 

You were just asking to be facetious right?
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Offline tauruck

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2016, 05:54:55 PM »
I consider Brad one of my good mates and understand his question but Brad you have to give it to Stan!!!. He's a legend.
Stan, I know this thread is old but I really laughed. :-D :cheers:
Brad, the guy said it like it is, call him grumpy but he hit it on the head.


Offline panic

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2016, 03:25:58 PM »
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Offline rouse

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2016, 03:38:07 PM »
Hol shitt!  I'd like to run moonshine and nitrous -- neither are fuels by my definition -- why do you not have a class for me?"

That's what I ran Stan, but I still ran in the "F" class. Maybe I was just afraid to ask :-D

BTW, One sniff of my fuel, and you want to listen to country music and chase wild women. :cheers:

Rouse
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Offline RansomT

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2016, 06:47:42 PM »
I'd like to run moonshine and nitrous -- neither are fuels by my definition -- why do you not have a class for me?"

Hey wait a darn minute ... I resemble that remark!   :-D

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2016, 08:29:47 PM »
Nah, Johhnie, I don't think I want to snort your fuel.  I prefer the stuff I use -- makes me enjoy classical music and Nancy comes chasin' to me.  It doesn't get better. . . :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline rouse

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Re: Nitrous considered "Fuel"...
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2016, 08:39:53 AM »
SSS,

I guess age has its privileges :-D

Rouse
Johnnie Rouse
Bike 4680 P-PP2000 SCTA record 153.325    A-PF3000 182.920
                              Texas Mile 152.518 PP class  186 A-PF Class
If you love your freedom thank a vet.