Author Topic: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???  (Read 13813 times)

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Offline distributorguy

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May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« on: May 18, 2016, 08:14:06 AM »
Was someone from this forum at the meeting and willing to talk about what was discussed and the general tone of the meeting?  I know the answer of who was there.  I would just like to hear from the horses' mouths what might be considered an acceptable way to "preserve" (I'd prefer restore) the flats. 
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 
Racing is the evil modification of insanity.

Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2016, 11:07:20 AM »
HEAR! HEAR!
  I would like to know what those who represent my interests had to say on my behalf.

Sam
Turbo Sportsters since '97

Offline Sumner

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2016, 05:17:59 PM »
http://www.sltrib.com/news/3902634-155/preliminary-research-suggests-bonneville-salt-flats

I hope the actual meeting wasn't as depressing as reading about it and reading the 'reader comments'  (click and read them all) was really depressing,

Sumner

Offline RCKirby

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2016, 06:25:53 PM »
I was present to record the meeting and I'll let you know some of my thoughts and observations.  Louise I'm sure will "officially" comment later.
It was interesting and highly informative. It was mediated by Penny Mabie who in my opinion did an excellent job of keeping the participants on target.

Kevin Oliver, from the BLM discussed numbers from the Salt Laydown Project over the years and the importance of the Salt Flats to the BLM and his expectations from the summit.
Louise Noethe shared the 'racers" point of view in a frank and straight forward manner.  She pulled no punches.
Eric Rogers from Intrepid shared insights into their mineral extraction program.

U of U professor Dr. Brenda Bowen discussed the complexity of eco system of the salt flats.  An interesting part of this was towards the end as scientists define the crust as one thing and the racers define the crust as another.  Louise helped to define the two with the use of a cake.  To scientists the crust is the cake extending rather deep.  To the racer, the crust is like the frosting, just what's on top.  While some were saying the crust was very thick, others said it was thin.  A case of not exactly understanding what each others perceptions were.

The discussion then moved into the proposals put forth by the Utah Alliance and Save the Salt.  The proposals were explained by Dennis Sullivan.  They were then discussed in detail between all parties. 

Again, I'm sure Louise will share the Utah Alliance observations of the meeting.  With that said, the racers were represented by an impressive group including the individuals mentioned above, but also Tom Burkland, Larry Volk, Mike Cook, the SCTA, SEMA and others.  I have to say that I had never met Russ Eyers.  He is highly knowledgeable and VERY articulate.  I am certainly grateful he is a racer!  He was extremely persuasive with some powerful comments.

Overall the meeting, in my opinion was very good.  All participants were frank and direct.  I came to a better understanding of how difficult this process is going to be, and it is.  However I also gained confidence and respect for those representing the land speed racers.

RCKirby

Offline USFRAMONTE

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2016, 07:06:13 PM »
I was also in attendance. I am not in any official capacity with Save The Salt or the Utah Coalition. Louise or someone else with have to give the official outlook on the substance of the meeting.
This is the first time I  have been at a meeting with people from the BLM and Intrepid. In my opinion, those representing the racers were the only ones willing to lay out the facts as we understand them and offer solutions that we think will bring the salt back to raceable condition.  The scientific community has many things to look into and study. I gained new insight into how much effort and time will be involved in that portion of the work. Both the BLM and Intrepid made the point that they need to see the data from Dr.  Bowen's study before they can make informed decisions or commitments. Intrepid did commit to continue the salt lay down project for the foreseeable future. The BLM committed to install a new remote weather station on the salt to give the scientists more relevant data to work with.
Keep in mind these are my own observations, not anything official. The path appears to be a steep uphill trek from here.

Offline manta22

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2016, 07:55:02 PM »
RE: "The scientific community has many things to look into and study."

Bear in mind that the scientific community largely depends on grants for their employment. As long as they can argue that "more research is needed" their projects and jobs continue to be funded. If a project is ever "finished", the money goes away.

Ever since "science" discovered that they could exploit revenue from the taxpayers, true science has suffered and in many cases has been corrupted. Dwindling credibility has been the unfortunate result. Take that Dust Study with "a grain of salt".  :-D\

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2016, 09:19:27 PM »
Are the pups still running or not?
Jon E. Wennerberg
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 (that's way up north)
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2016, 09:51:22 PM »
You gotta dog in this race?

More studies.  More surveys.  More meetings.

We're gonna take what they give us for the foreseeable future and make sure our tarps are down.  Most of us (me included) are going to revel in what used-to-be. 

I don't see much in the future for us old farts.

Stan


P.S. I'm gonna try to get a permit to mine Roosevelt's nose off Mt. Rushmore.  Gotta be some granite there.  Lotta people need hard rock -- I'm sure the feds will give me the permit -- there's money involved.

Here in California's murder capitol, a new federal issue has surfaced in the last few months.  Seems like Arrowhead Spring Water (owned by Nestle international) had a U.S. Forest Service permit to take water out of the mountains directly north of us.  Since 1955, they've payed $585 for up to 36 million gallons per year.  The permit was never renewed, but the Forest Service says they kept paying it, so it's still good.  We got more fuking water than we need, and the Forest Service is showing a profit for the property, so all's well.  They're gonna have a 5-year survey to check it out.

Just like the Salt Cellar at the old Stateline -- or was that the Salt Seller celebrating the miners?
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2016, 01:31:22 AM »
So we haven't been talk about the same goddamn "crust" this whole time? It took a cake analogy for it to make sense? Seriously? We're doomed. Bye bye salt, was nice racing on ya while you existed.  :roll:
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline distributorguy

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2016, 07:28:05 AM »
Most Universities, even when their studies are "complete" and they have moved on to other research, will not define their research in a way that can be used for anything other than one piece of incomplete reference material.  Micro analysis of a single aspect of a larger system.  Intrepid knows that the study will not clearly define a cause or a solution, so they are buying 5-20 years of inaction with their "wait and see" statement.  Bummer.  Maybe its time to rebuild the truck for street use. 
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 
Racing is the evil modification of insanity.

Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2016, 09:17:24 AM »
Let's start at the beginning;
"Preliminary research suggests Bonneville Salt Flats are in decline — and there’s no easy fix"

Ms Penrod seems to think there has never been research on the subject before.


".... have declined over the past 30 years...."
There is data from a far longer timeframe.

"... researchers say it's not clear why those changes have occurred..."
Please, name these folks. And who pays them.

"...they caution that taking action without understanding the salt flats' system could cause further damage."
Again, who are these people and who writes their checks?

"Satellite imagery analyzed by University of Utah researchers demonstrates a decadeslong trend of decline that has no clear correlation with other factors like mining activity or the weather, according to Brenda Bowen, the geologist leading the study."
Ah. Now, please explain the ditches. Oh, they must be natural formations.

"But determining how to reverse the decline is difficult, said Bowen — especially given that it's unclear what's causing the flats to decline or even how they form."
Looks like I need buy some Bazooka Joe and I can have a degree in geology, too.

Sam
Turbo Sportsters since '97

Offline Buickguy3

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2016, 09:29:07 AM »
   Watching the News the other nite, someone gave this annalogy: It's more profitable to treat the disease than it is to cure it. Makes sense to all who don't have the disease. As has been said, us old guys will never see the benefits of all of the studies. I guess we'll race what we can, where we can, while we can.
     Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
                   [America]

Offline Ron Gibson

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2016, 10:46:27 AM »
Satellite images can only see white. They can't tell the difference between .25" and 12', it all looks white. If the "area" is getting measurably smaller, common sense says the "thickness" at the center of the bowl will be thinner. Of course that means people have to have common sense or are paid to ignore it.

Ron
Life is an abrasive. Whether you get ground away or polished to a shine depends on what you are made of.

Offline jl222

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2016, 12:05:27 PM »
   Watching the News the other nite, someone gave this annalogy: It's more profitable to treat the disease than it is to cure it. Makes sense to all who don't have the disease. As has been said, us old guys will never see the benefits of all of the studies. I guess we'll race what we can, where we can, while we can.
     Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

  A 5 mile El Mirage?

   JL222

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Re: May 17th Salt Flat Summit info???
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 07:22:38 PM »
The opening Statement and complete Position Paper presented at the May 17, 2016 Bonneville Summit can be accessed at:

www.save-the-salt.org

Additionally, on the website you will find the Utah Alliance/Save The Salt opening statement laying out the land speed racing community's point of view and expectations at the conclusion of the summit.

The Position Paper includes  a 1-page summary statement, time line of 100 years of racing activities, Shrinking Salt Speedway article/video link, 1-page summary of engineering report, complete engineering report prepared by Bingham Engineering, ALL the support letters written to BLM director Neil Kornze by land speed racers to date received by the Utah Alliance and Save the Salt.

A report of the proceedings and attendees is being drafted and will be posted to Utah Alliance and Save the Salt websites ate later date.