Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....

[maj]

Woody i was insinuating that to get the lake bed to resemble your model the leak needs to be stopped
no amount of adding brine to the surface esp in the scale thats even possible will do any thing untill the closed system evaporation pan the existed for thousands of years is reinstated

Most of us have read the reports of the % salt in the groundwater pumping increasing since it began, that was the beginning of the end of the salt pan

we need water table rising bringing salt to the surface on a large scale  

Its a lesson learnt the hard way by irrigation farmers world wide , many salt pans have been created before adequate drainage
was put in to reverse the problem  

[WOODY@DDLLC]

Maj, we are on the same page. When you actually have 5 feet of salt and put more brine on top I think you get a better reaction, too.  I was just getting my trial study done for the BLM before I formally submit my request for everyone's tax dollars, sorry I meant federal funds. 

[bbarn]

Woody i was insinuating that to get the lake bed to resemble your model the leak needs to be stopped
no amount of adding brine to the surface esp in the scale thats even possible will do any thing untill the closed system evaporation pan the existed for thousands of years is reinstated

Most of us have read the reports of the % salt in the groundwater pumping increasing since it began, that was the beginning of the end of the salt pan

we need water table rising bringing salt to the surface on a large scale  

Its a lesson learnt the hard way by irrigation farmers world wide , many salt pans have been created before adequate drainage
was put in to reverse the problem  

Maj, we are on the same page. When you actually have 5 feet of salt and put more brine on top I think you get a better reaction, too.  I was just getting my trial study done for the BLM before I formally submit my request for everyone's tax dollars, sorry I meant federal funds.  

Although I hesitate to continue in the role of "Captain Obvious", perhaps some progress can be made to restore the BSF by applying Ockham's Razor to the problem.

1/   As Maj suggests:          Plug the holes in "the evaporation pan"
2/   As Woody suggests:     Add salinity, and continue to add salinity
3/   As Sumner suggests:   Use water that permits high concentrations of "saline solution"
4/   As I have suggested:   Stop extraction, immediately.

NONE of the above suggestions would induce any harm to the BSF or its' restoration.   And they are all simple and make sense.

That is why they will not happen any time soon.

     

If you do not agree with this "simplistic logic" consider this:

Explain to me, in layman's terms, how it is possible to "restore", when "extraction" continues.

And further explain how this might be possible when the "waste, by product" is not returned to the original environment.

And since we live in a quantifiable universe, you are not allowed to use non-quantifiable terms, like: "endless supply"


The amount or lifespan of anything and everything is "quantifiable", in understandable terms, in this day and age.    This is exactly what has happened to the BSF.

+1

[Ron Gibson]

X2\
Ron

[ronnieroadster]

X3+ 

[generatorshovel]

OH OH, here we go in OZ 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-28/lithium-exploration-eyre-peninsula/7368214

[kiwi belly tank]

"Intrepid" Mines Ltd
Spring Hill
Queensland
Australia

[Steve Cole]

Maj, we are on the same page. When you actually have 5 feet of salt and put more brine on top I think you get a better reaction, too.  I was just getting my trial study done for the BLM before I formally submit my request for everyone's tax dollars, sorry I meant federal funds. 

I believe this to be very true and the only way your going to even come close to that is to move the salt back to the north side of I80 and spread it around. While I'm sure it's not going to cure the salt flats by itself you need a base, to help stop the brine pumped now from dropping through the soil into the water table. It's taken years to destroy BSF and its going to take years of hard work to give it a chance to survive.

There is no doubt the mine has removed huge amounts of the salt and they should be responsible for moving it back.

[Sumner]

....There is no doubt the mine has removed huge amounts of the salt and they should be responsible for moving it back...

True on the 'they removed it' but they are under no obligation to put it back.  The lease/mining agreements they have with the BLM only requires them to fill ditches and plug wells when the lease is up or they are finished mining.  I wish it was different but as far as I can tell it isn't.

Hopefully now we can get them to cooperate but down the road it might require some kind of 'super fund' type money to actually move large quantities back where it came from,

Sumner

[Steve Cole]

So they have no obligation to clean the land that they have piled the salt on?

[kiwi belly tank]

The land they've piled the salt on as you put it, belongs to them.
  Sid.

[Steve Cole]

I was under the impression that the entire mine operation was on BLM land. Typically, they are required to return the land to how it was prior to them starting operations, but if they own the land they could just do nothing with it.

[BobDcuda]

This doesn't exactly answer the question of what Intrepid is required to do in the way of reclamation, but it's still interesting.  According to their 2014 Annual Report / Form 10-K, they estimate that their Wendover "resource" has a 30 year remaining life.  Here's what their Annual Report has to say about their "Reclamation Obligations".

"Mining and processing of potash generates residual materials that must be managed both during the operation of the facility and upon facility reclamation and closure.  Potash tailings, consisting primarily of salt and fine sediments, are stored in surface disposal sites.  Some of these tailing materials may also include other contaminants, such as lead, that were introduced as reagents during historic processing methods that may require additional management and could cause additional disposal and reclamation requirements to be imposed.  During the life of the tailings management areas, we have incurred and will continue to incur significant costs to manage potash residual materials in accordance with environmental laws and regulations and with permit requirements.  Additional legal and permit requirements will take effect when these facilities are closed."

"Our surface permits require us to reclaim property disturbed by operations at our facilities.  Our operations in Utah and New Mexico have specific obligations related to reclamation of the land after mining and processing operations are concluded.  The discounted present value of our estimated reclamation costs for our mines as of December 31, 2014, is approximately $22.0 million, which is reflected in our financial statements. .... The undiscounted amount of our estimated reclamation costs for our mines as of December 31, 2014, is approximately $57.6 million."

They don't talk about having to relocate their "tailings", but they do acknowledge there could be other issues to deal with, like the presence of lead.  And they know it's going to cost a bundle.  Last time I looked their Balance Sheet had plenty there to cover these future costs - but lots can happen in 30 years. 

[Sumner]

...  Here's what their Annual Report has to say about their "Reclamation Obligations".

"Our surface permits require us to reclaim property disturbed by operations at our facilities.  Our operations in Utah and New Mexico have specific obligations related to reclamation of the land after mining and processing operations are concluded.....

Note there is no mention of returning salt from where it came from  .  The above came from the following in 2012 .....

https://www.blm.gov/ut/enbb/files/Intrepid_Potash_Final_EA_FONSI_DR.pdf

Sumner

[kiwi belly tank]

I was under the impression that the entire mine operation was on BLM land. Typically, they are required to return the land to how it was prior to them starting operations, but if they own the land they could just do nothing with it.

Here's a map of who claims what.
http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/ut/salt_lake_fo/bonneville_salt_flats/pdfs.Par.16381.File.dat/BSF%20Area%20Map.pdf