Author Topic: Timing Retard Eliminator  (Read 5393 times)

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LittleLiner

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Timing Retard Eliminator
« on: April 21, 2016, 05:29:58 PM »
Question for the bike people.  I did a search and only found one post from 2008 and it only addressed the question of a TRE being legal in the Production bike classes so  . . . .
Is there any value in running a Timing Retard Eliminator device?  In my case it would be on a 2007 GSXR 750 engine.  Does it really add horsepower?   Thanks


Offline BVCBR

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Re: Timing Retard Eliminator
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 05:47:32 PM »
Question for the bike people.  I did a search and only found one post from 2008 and it only addressed the question of a TRE being legal in the Production bike classes so  . . . .
Is there any value in running a Timing Retard Eliminator device?  In my case it would be on a 2007 GSXR 750 engine.  Does it really add horsepower?   Thanks

It will depend on the tuning of the bike. If it is OEM stock, and you will make it to whatever combination of rpm/throttle/speed the retard comes in at during a run, it may give you some more power. Really you would need to dyno it to make sure, but by all accounts, it is intended to give more power.

I'm not familiar with the strategy of the GSXR750, but on the Honda CBR1000RR's, of the 2008 and later years, they would retard the timing in 6th gear at WOT above 6000 or so RPM. The timing retard eliminator did give us a little more power, but not much.

JW
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976B 1000cc P-P
977B 1000cc M-G/F

LittleLiner

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Re: Timing Retard Eliminator
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 05:56:17 PM »
Thanks JW.  In my application (Bike engine in a car) it is unlikely I will ever get into 6th gear running 1 mile in Ohio and maybe 1.5 miles in Maine.  I will have to do some research on some of the GSXR forums to get specifics.

Offline RansomT

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Re: Timing Retard Eliminator
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 07:31:04 PM »
I'm not 100% sure about the '07 GSXR 750, but on the 1000 and Busa, 1-3 gears have the ignition tables less aggressive with a 6th gear "sub" table that limits the RPM to keep the top speed under 186 mph.  Also, there is a slight change in the fueling via an offset in 4-6 gears for the ram air effect.

Later on tonight I can take a quick look at my flashing software and see if there are differences in the ignition tables.

Offline maj

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Re: Timing Retard Eliminator
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 08:29:09 PM »
Just as important is the clutch switch ,If you bridge the clutch switch wires  you need to isolate the wire in the clutch switch circuit that tells the ecu when the clutch is in or you will be very dissappointed in performance

Also dont know if the 750 is speed limited, but a TRE pretty well covers all bases in your case

LittleLiner

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Re: Timing Retard Eliminator
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 10:08:56 PM »
What I am looking for is someone actually running a TRE on a GSXR750 running in Land Speed events.  

Appreciate the responses so far.  Thanks guys.

I am aware of the clutch switch issue and have that covered in my system.  The actual clutch handle with clutch switch is being used on my car.


Offline maj

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Re: Timing Retard Eliminator
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2016, 05:46:07 PM »
We run 750s, but earlier , and we have used a TRE (resistor actually), mostly as that model did not have ecu hacking available and i could not look at what was happening , i am very sure if i used a tre i have reduced the background variables of potential rpm limit and ign mapping change

Only things i have in your vintage to check ecu maps is 600 and 1000 , 600 has timing retard in the lower part of all gears in both available maps , not something that would worry you once you leave the line , while there is a less retarded map in the ecu its not assigned to any gear
and is the same from 10% throttle and up anyway
the 600 definition file i have is very basic so i cant look at much more than that
1000 ecu of that generation has top gear rpm limiters
and 3 sets of ign maps  with TRE selected 5th gear maps the most advanced through much of the mid range , but pulls a couple of degrees out above 12000rpm and 80%tps -100%, from 31.8 deg to 29.7  not necessarily a bad thing with your vehicle
the 750 could have either combo or be somewhere in between , i still would use a TRE

LittleLiner

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Re: Timing Retard Eliminator
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2016, 12:37:53 PM »
Thank you Maj.   I am probably going to add a TRE to my setup.  I appreciate the detailed information.