Author Topic: Optimizing the push-start . . .  (Read 9530 times)

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Offline tallguy

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Optimizing the push-start . . .
« on: April 13, 2016, 10:33:37 PM »
I think that for Bonneville (and similar venues) where a maximum speed (40 mph?)
is allowed by the pushing vehicle while pushing the race vehicle, the following ideas
could be helpful.

1.  Use a very high-powered push vehicle.

2.  Make sure it has enough traction to push itself and the race vehicle without
     wheelspin.

Of course, there are many ways to approach this.  One way would be for the push
vehicle to be heavily weighted on its drive tires.  It could also help if the push vehicle
is quite light in other areas, i.e., that don't much help its traction -- such as around
the front of the vehicle.  This would help provide overall acceleration for the "total
package" that consists of both vehicles.  At the low speeds used, using any kind of
spoiler may not help much.  But it could, as long as there is plenty of horsepower
available.

I don't know whether thrust (from a fan, jet engine, or rocket engine) is permissible
for propelling the push vehicle.  I also don't know whether any kind of "spring-loaded
launcher" is allowable to give the race vehicle an additional "kick".  I don't suggest
violating any rules, but I think it's generally known or believed that if something is
not prohibited, it may be permissible.  One of the things that frequently helps racers
succeed is out-of-the box thinking.

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2016, 12:18:06 AM »
I dunno but I suspect there may be some queries as to whether you're taking something you shouldn't or not taking something you should.

Generally you don't hear much about push vehicle problems, it's at the other end when the track is running out in a hurry and drag is threatening to close your account that little changes make big differences.

I could be wrong, it's not unheard of.
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2016, 12:43:31 AM »
4x4 in Low Range---on Rev Limiter at about 40 pretty fast--- we jerk it in gear in about 4-5 seconds into push start launch
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2016, 12:46:52 AM »
Tall... buy a rulebook

Who do you know that is having a push problem...  :?
 :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2016, 01:11:51 AM »
WTF! Find something else to to apply your internet engineering skills to.
  Sid.

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2016, 04:37:27 AM »
You aren't understanding the rules. There isn't any push problem or speed limit per se.

Pete

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2016, 06:54:10 AM »
Sparky, I've never been pushed or done the pushing -- so please forgive my ignorance.

But why LOW RANGE?  I can see the apparent torque multiplication at the drive wheels, but giving up lots of (potential) speed of the push by gearing so low that you're on the limiter -- WTF?  Why not leave it in high 4x4 for the push?  Low on torque in the push vehicle engine or what? :?

I admit it -- I drive a diesel and I'm used to gobs of torque.  Big difference with a gas engine, right?
Jon E. Wennerberg
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 (that's way up north)
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Offline mtkawboy

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2016, 12:05:21 PM »
There's a reason the Vesco's use a blown Chevy powered 4
WD Jeep as a push car

Offline Glen

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2016, 12:22:50 PM »
The Vescos don't push off anymore. The new engine has enough power to drive off the line. We did this at the WOS with no problem, we do push off the 444 yellow liner.
Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah

Offline mtkawboy

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2016, 11:41:12 AM »
Is that the turbine car ?

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2016, 03:11:32 PM »
SSS  once my car is moving 30+ it will accelerate faster than virtually any push vech.,   it is all about course length left---sorta like an airplane trying to take off--- the altitude above and the runway behind you are worthless if you have eng problems.  I can get to thirty using less course length
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Glen

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2016, 03:34:52 PM »
Is that the turbine car ?

Yes it'e the Turbinator II.
Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2016, 04:23:13 PM »
We go with the theory that a short push is a good push.  'Course we don't go that fast, and we have a 4-speed in the roadster (your vehicle may vary).

The driver is instructed that any time he thinks he can out-accelerate the push vehicle, he should leave.  See attached video -- www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-TspwgGwgc&feature=youtu.be

Don't know if this works with bikes.

Stan
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 04:35:02 PM by Stan Back »
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Offline Freud

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 04:53:16 PM »
Stan Back.

Please research push starts for bikes.

Break it down by classes. Most interest is

in bikes above 1000 cc. They spin their tire too much.

50 cc bikes have no problem with breaking traction off

the starting line. Not as much interest in mechanical push

off the line. I suggest safety toe shoes for people running

along side the 50 cc machine asking the rider what day he

will be back to the pits.

Please post your reply under the Breast Feeding Section.

That way everyone will read it and remember where to find

the answers.


FREUD
Since '63

Offline dw230

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Re: Optimizing the push-start . . .
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 08:18:06 PM »
Doc,

Do the bikes really need a push truck in the 100cc classes? Wouldn't the truck hit the rear tire and abort the run?

DW :?
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