Author Topic: Drones At Bonneville  (Read 44072 times)

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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2016, 05:51:42 PM »
The SCTA reportedly has already set some rules -- give me a little time and I'll post them here when I get them.

Stan
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Offline metermatch

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2016, 12:17:31 AM »
I, too, have operated R/C airplanes, cars, boats, helicopters, etc since 1976.  The "so called" new rules regarding drone use (i.e. no flying over people, fly under 400 feet, not within 5 miles of airport without permission, etc) are nothing new, and were in place in 1976, by the hobby organization Acedemy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).  It is pretty obvious the FEDS took the AMA's safety rules and used them as a starting point to begin regulations.

For work, I operate literaly many BILLIONS of dollars of water pipelines, pump stations, resevoirs, generating plants, high voltage equipment, etc.  Some of it 100 years old, some of it 5 years old or less computer/electrical "wonders"  I trust the 100 year old mechanical euipment a lot more.  The point here is some posters above comments about the "new, latest and greatest drone equipment" being fool-proof, are meaningless.  ALL equipment CAN fail. Particularily Computers/electronics/radio control. The computer techno people are always telling us about the "new, updated" version of anything that has all of the bugs worked out.  Baloney.

That being said, I think that reasonable accomidations could be made that can be a benefit for all of us.  I, for one, would love some videos of me running my car, would pay for it, but Bonneville being so big, the cars are too far away to stand on the sidelines to video.

How about allowing an easily controlled, fixed number (like perhaps 10 or so) of PROFESSIONAL drone photographers, with proof of liability insurance, registration, etc, with obviously professional level equipment, permitted to film?  They could be considered the "official drone video" photographers of the event. I would suggest a license fee of perhaps $200-$500 for the privelage, and to cover costs for perhaps another worker to watch/monitor them.  Have a prepared set of rules, guidelines, and specific assigned areas they can operate, or give them the boot.  I'm thinking to NOT give them free range to roam all over Bonneville.  A tether of some sort may be a solution. Have EACH drone an assigned area ONLY, such as drone 1 at starting line course 1, drone 2 at starting line course 2, etc, drone 5 at return road between courses # 1 and #2, etc.  If the pilots won't agree to those terms, we can have some compronise at OUR agreement, or we don't sell the license to be there i.e. no drone at that location. Problem solved.

I think a drone may be possible to be safely operated on areas such as the return roads?  Clearly never around or over the area we race on between the course cones, but what about the return road areas between the tracks?

For those who don't want any drones near them in the air when they make their run, they could just tell the starter to request the nearby drones to land while that person makes their run? 

Clearly, under NO circumstances should we allow the average person, with their hobby drone, to fly around.  Including US drivers.  All of the concerns of problems of cheap drones apply.  Take a trip to any public flying field and you will see why you don't want to trust the "general" public

The comments above regarding the drone flying above the drivers meeting are spot-on.  If flying above people, the drone pilot violated a known safety rule.  Simple solution - give them the boot. At this time, just call the FEDS for enforcement.

I don't have all the answers or know all the problems, but I think a workable solution to allow drones, closely monitored and very limited, is possible. More cool photos and videos online of what we do can only stimulate interest and public support for what we do.

I was really really annoyed at 2013 Speedweek by that photo company "Event Photo".  I wanted to buy a photo from them, and was relying on getting that photo and did not take any of my own, but missed their office time at Bonneville, and to my surprise, they would not sell me the photo after the event was over!

Jeff #2470, #247


Offline thundersalt

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2016, 11:43:11 AM »
Hey -- is this something that the SCTA/BNI oughta be thinking about regulating as part of the press pass procedure?  I have no idea if anyone has presented thoughts and concerns like these to the officials, but - -?? :?
As if they don't already have enough to do........Here's an idea to simplify the process " No Drones Allowed"
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Offline distributorguy

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2016, 01:50:06 PM »
Hey -- is this something that the SCTA/BNI oughta be thinking about regulating as part of the press pass procedure?  I have no idea if anyone has presented thoughts and concerns like these to the officials, but - -?? :?
As if they don't already have enough to do........Here's an idea to simplify the process " No Drones Allowed"

Sure.  And no import cars.  And nothing that can't run a full cage.  And no salt allowed.  Safety first, right?   :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:

Pet peeve: instead of learning something new let's ban it. 
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 
Racing is the evil modification of insanity.

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2016, 04:22:18 PM »
I talked to Lee Kennedy, SCTA Technical Director, and got the Proposed Guidelines concerning drones.  They're not official yet and says he's welcome to suggestions for changes and/or additions.  So if you gotta problem with these, let him know at 818-519-6896 and not just bitch about it here.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline donpearsall

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2016, 05:14:10 PM »
Quote
Sure.  And no import cars.  And nothing that can't run a full cage.  And no salt allowed.  Safety first, right?   
Pet peeve: instead of learning something new let's ban it. 

Exactly. Fifty or a hundred years from now when historians are documenting the demise of land speed racing they will be looking for aerial videos and photos and saying to themselves "Didn't they have those things they called drones back then? Now we don't have any aerial views of the last land speed cars and bikes."

Don
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2016, 07:16:03 PM »
Yes. i have to agree. Landspeed racing never was any good before the drones. Won't be any good now without them.

Offline metermatch

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2016, 07:17:10 PM »
The above SCTA drone flying rules are a good start and appear to be in line with what I recall about the new FAA regulations, and consistant with what has been the commonly accepted practice among responsible R/C hobbists for decades.

The next item to discuss is the possibility of a SCTA process to control/allow a select number of photo drones WITHIN the 2 miles of the race course.  I believe a very select few PROFESSIONAL level commercial drone photographers could be allowed near the race course for our benefit as well as theirs.  See my suggestions in my post a few posts above.

And anything that the SCTA agrees to, must still be within the FAA guidelines, such as no flying over people/cars/tents, etc.

Let the discussions begin...

Jeff

Offline hotrod

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2016, 08:42:40 PM »
Looks good to me.

The posted rules already provide for usage within 2 miles of he venue, but only after contacting SCTA officials and getting written permission for that use.

Item #3 in the Don'ts list
and
Item #5 in model aircraft operating limits

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2016, 09:25:14 PM »
Okay, so let's say we let the drone thing happen.

Who is going to oversee the proposed compliance over 2 long courses and 2 short courses?  SCTA-BNI needs to keep their eyes on the cars, bikes and drivers.

Do we really want some spectator with a drone being the "first responder" in the case of an accident?

How will we deal with a belligerent unwilling to park it?

The technology of cheap, consumer grade radio controlled products is insufficiently advanced to bet my life on it, and certainly not in the hands of spectators.

What frequencies are any 2, or 3, or 137 drones operating on?  When concentrated into a limited space where these frequencies will tend to carry farther, what guarantees can be provided that intermodulation, phase cancelling and signal dropouts won't effect other drones?  

We're talking about the hottest RF toy to come out in years.  And they are largely toys, built to the price of a toy, and to no documentable safety standard that any racer should feel comfortable with.  There is insufficient experience using multiple, cheap devices in close proximity to guarantee the kind of safety necessary to assure an untarnished event.

And then there's the wild cards of operator idiots, operator error, system failure, motor failure, wind, a camera improperly attached.

It's insanity to think that numerous consumer grade RC products of this nature can be used safely around people trying to do something as dangerous as pushing a motorcycle or a car to its limits.

If used, I think they need to be limited to insured professionals, authorized by the sanctioning body, and with the strictest possible limitations to assure safety.

    

 
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline dw230

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2016, 10:43:05 PM »
"Who is going to oversee the proposed compliance over 2 long courses and 2 short courses?  SCTA-BNI needs to keep their eyes on the cars, bikes and drivers."

How about this guy?, Reply #63

"Sure.  And no import cars.  And nothing that can't run a full cage.  And no salt allowed.  Safety first, right?   Dead Horse Dead Horse Dead Horse
Pet peeve: instead of learning something new let's ban it."

He seems to one of the new generation,
DW
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2016, 10:45:39 PM »
Did you read the PDF that Stan Back posted back in reply #64 Chris? I think that precludes anyone using a toy drone around the event and anyone who acts in an irresponsible manner can be treated the same as anyone else who acts badly. That's what the police are for.  :-D :-D :-D

Pete

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2016, 11:20:11 PM »
Did you read the PDF that Stan Back posted back in reply #64 Chris? I think that precludes anyone using a toy drone around the event and anyone who acts in an irresponsible manner can be treated the same as anyone else who acts badly. That's what the police are for.  :-D :-D :-D

Pete

PJ - yes, it does.  And yet we've seen planes land on the salt, people driving faster than posted speeds on the access paths, people dumping their camper sewage into porta-potties, idiots burying their cars up to the window frames in the mud.  Given the popularity of these things, it's unreasonable to think with 15,000 folks at Speedweek spread out over 20 square miles with the hottest new toy in the land, we're not going to see encroachment onto the racing area.  

I'm no fan of the "nanny state", but an incident similar to this cannot be allowed to happen -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct5waHK1vas

And I doubt if SCTA-BNI wants to arrive at an accident after a drone has already uploaded a video.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 11:23:19 PM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #73 on: April 01, 2016, 08:46:41 AM »
Sort of a hijack - but not really.  Our shop is in a building owned by an ad agency/video shop, and Tony, the owner, and I have talked about his drones and how he uses 'em.

First:  Hey, we've got one legal drone operator.  He's got whatever permits and licenses and he still has had his units parked for a year or two while the rules get straightened out.  I know that about 5 years ago I asked him to fly over and video our parcel of land (we've never seen it from above and it's heavily forested) and he said he couldn't - the rules wouldn't let him use the thing high enough to give much view, and can't be operated out of eyesight -- yup, he's legal.

But I don't think he's typical.
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Offline bbarn

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #74 on: April 01, 2016, 08:56:54 AM »
Sort of a hijack - but not really.  Our shop is in a building owned by an ad agency/video shop, and Tony, the owner, and I have talked about his drones and how he uses 'em.

First:  Hey, we've got one legal drone operator.  He's got whatever permits and licenses and he still has had his units parked for a year or two while the rules get straightened out.  I know that about 5 years ago I asked him to fly over and video our parcel of land (we've never seen it from above and it's heavily forested) and he said he couldn't - the rules wouldn't let him use the thing high enough to give much view, and can't be operated out of eyesight -- yup, he's legal.

But I don't think he's typical.

Actually, he is a commercial operator. They tend to do things the legal way or they lose their commercial status and therefore can't make a living.
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