Author Topic: Drones At Bonneville  (Read 44071 times)

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Offline distributorguy

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2016, 04:32:23 PM »
Hotrod  :cheers:
Its funny that people here have irrational fears of a drone wrecking their run or their car, but they they're not afraid of driving over 200 mph. 
With all due respect, any photographer that is willing to get permission to use a drone and is willing to follow whatever guidelines/rules/limitations are put in front of them, they are welcome to do so.  Whether that needs to be written in the rule book, drawn up by special committee, whatever, its going to become more popular and should likely be discussed BEFORE some asshole with a $200 remote control toy helicopter becomes a nuisance.  The member of our team is a true professional photographer and videographer and isn't going to cause any issues.  In fact, I'll bet he helps get Bonneville more attention, in a good way. 
Save the Salt. 
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 
Racing is the evil modification of insanity.

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2016, 04:47:55 PM »
Larry (hotrod),

thanks for taking care about us photographer....if we are not there, there would be no prove of the history via picture (remember the article from Rocky)....and yes, after the 2014/15 season there was a big hole in my bank account for Nothing....but I was in a good Company with all the other Speed Freaks....so we could share the unlucky situation....cross the fingers for 2016....


I followed this thread now for a while....

yes, the today technic is very high today...used by the pro's....but who else can afford this technic

yes, this pro's knows to handle their pro Equipment......but what's up with the one, someone bought a week before at ebay

so as Larry, I had the chance to chat with this Discovery pilot - he had his equipment under the drone very well protected...as he said, he knows why.....and he told me some real scary situations he run in, with his drone....


a drone has NOTHING to do in an area above the crowd or racers......did I have to explain that a racer....like #911....can easily take down a drone just from his turbulences behind the racer......


BUT what really bothers me, is:

this Pro documentation teams are not taking da...mn care for 2 Cent for other photographer, that they can do their Job, too....like the one who done this Boyd roadster Story, when his wife run the car....using a big camera crane for days so that we had no chance to get any proper picture of the starting line....Larry, like me and Ray the Rat, I'm sure you was over the years also a victim from so Pro's....what I mean....



In the last couple of years I had to throw a lot of pictures away....WHY.....because there was the shadow from a camera crane or a drone on the body of a racer (pushed off at the startingline).......there was NO CHANCE to FIX it with photoshop....I'm not coming all the way just to get this experience......


Making movies or photos with a drone.....they looking nice....but all had to be under safety condition for spectator and racer and under the respect from other who frame the action at this place

otherwise they have NOTHING to do at the salt.......

My two Cents for that
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline hotrod

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2016, 05:53:36 PM »
We have had this discussion before on professional courtesy for other photographers.
The one point I agree with some comments above there are a few photographers (predominantly vidographers) who think their photo is the only important one.

When Charles Nearburg ran his record to take the Summers Brothers Record in 2010 the video crew that was doing a feature on the car, almost blocked out all the still photographers completely. They set the car up in a poor lighting location then futzed around for almost an hour while the light died just before sunset. For that whole hour plus either their boom or one of their team was constantly hovering over the car, never once did they look over their shoulder and see the half dozen still photographers patiently waiting for 30 seconds of clear time to get a shot. They also to my knowledge never even realized that they screwed around so long that they killed the best lighting.

Some of us got lucky and squeezed in a quick grab shot when they accidentally backed away from the car for 3 seconds. I finally got my best shot after all the commercial stuff was done and the sun was just setting behind the western mountains. I got very lucky with a long exposure hand held shot and got a good one with the full moon in the back ground but it was more stupid luck than skill.

Same issue crops up at the starting line for a small group of still photographers who think the only shots of value are extreme wide angle shots taken at arms reach distance from the car at some odd ball angle, and constantly clutter up the near field making it impossible for other photographers and video graphers to make a wide shot that takes in the entire car, crew and spectator lines.

Visualize your shot, check other photographers to make sure you are not about to ruin some one else's shot, step in to frame the shot, take the shot and then please get the H---- out of there so others have a chance to take their shots.

There are often 10 -15 credentialed photographers patiently waiting to get a shot as the car is prepped to run and the driver is strapped in.
They make zoom telephoto lenses for a reason, learn to use one.

(end rant)

Offline Tman

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2016, 06:04:27 PM »
That drone over the drivers meeting was annoying. I don't mind a pro flying one to document runs however.

Offline BHR301

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2016, 06:47:49 PM »
Just take a good look at how well protected the very expensive camera is on a professional drone...should tell you just how much in control the pilot really is! If nothing could happen why would the camera be protected? You people can have all the drones you want, please just keep them on the ground and away from me!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 07:28:10 PM by BHR301 »

Offline hotrod

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Offline Eddieschopshop

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2016, 09:38:53 PM »
I suppose I should clarify a few things.  Hopefully my comments didn't start this anti photographer storm,  it wasn't my intent. 

I have no problem with photogs or videographers, as long as they are not interfering with the racing.

Lets review for a minute.

The reason for the event is to go fast. 
First priority is doing it safely.
To have an event there are a lot of things that have to happen.  If one were to prioritize these things, pictures would be the LAST thing on the list.  An event could still happen if there was no one there to take a picture.  Again I don't have anything against any media,  however it just isn't essential to an event.  I can take my own pictures,  I have a camera on the car and a crew that  I feel comfortable with in my space. 

A drone has no business over the course,  off course where any impossibly,  remote problem would not equal a drone on course is fine.  Seems pretty simple to me.   I can't see how anyone could justify a drone over the course unless it is specific to one team and they are okay with it.  We could just let people drive across the courses whenever they wanted,  I mean as long as they don't do it while a car is on course there couldn't possibly ever be a problem right?

If the photogs and videographers are stepping on each others toes it gives me an indication of how many we have out there.  Keep in mind there are plenty of spectators whos pictures are just as important to them who are behind all the pros.   

I know this sounds as if I am negative towards the media,,,, I am not.  Just pointing out the priorities.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2016, 11:33:44 PM »

Its funny that people here have irrational fears of a drone wrecking their run or their car, but they they're not afraid of driving over 200 mph. 
 

Respectfully, I don't know that it's an irrational fear.

There are so many drones out there now that are so cheaply built that I question their quality.

I wouldn't have a problem with the event limiting drones to a professional level standard of build - and determining that would be above my pay grade - but when you can buy one on eBay for $60.00, that's getting to the point where the inexperienced operator can be operating a questionable distraction with a potential for failure that I don't think any racer would be comfortable with.

I think it's well within the purview of any responsible sanctioning body to limit drone operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgXd0nIo784
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2016, 05:06:10 AM »
"Eddie",

don't worry......if you read through this thread you will see that a lot of different aspects and opinions was written....

In facts, it is important, that photographer are there....they frame not only the history....they also create you a memory from the great time you had at the salt....

Talking about photographer, sorry, but there is a different between the photos the teams himself can make or at the level Larry (hotrod), some other and maybe myself can shoot....
especially if you try to catch a racer at 400+ mph.....

the real problem is - and this was discussed before, here on Landracing.....

Some years ago, there was only a handful (pro) photographer around......in the last years there was hundreds who got the wrist band and run around in the starting line area....

the few we had for a long time, knew to do their job....and took care and respect each other....this now photographer, using smartphones, has not the clue what to do, disturbing the starting process and create risk to be hurt...and finally they "destroy" the chance of the pro's to get the right picture when they, as Larry wrote before, run into the view......or in your camera equipment....

if this folks, don't knowing the "law" how to do right...now would start with drones in the same way....this would be more than a disaster......it would effect the safety of all of us extremely....

so in this way, maybe your note was on the right time that the issue "drones" at the salt can be clarified before the season starts....


By the way, there are the photo gallery's from Ray the Rat and myself here on Landracing....there you can see the right stuff (means photography)  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 06:50:23 AM by PorkPie »
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2016, 02:21:53 PM »
That drone over the drivers meeting was annoying. I don't mind a pro flying one to document runs however.

yeah, that was bad... really bad.  let's fly this really loud and attention grabbing quadcopter around while the event staff is trying to do the driver's meeting.  IMO, they're too distracting.  should absolutely not be on the  starting line where people need to focus on what they're doing.  especially spectators that are distracted by shiny moving things.  won't be long before someone gets hurt because they're not paying attention.  kinda like walking into a phone poll while looking at your cell phone.  whoever that was flying during the drivers meeting should have had their press pass revoked and been escorted off the salt. 
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2016, 03:02:43 PM »
Hey -- is this something that the SCTA/BNI oughta be thinking about regulating as part of the press pass procedure?  I have no idea if anyone has presented thoughts and concerns like these to the officials, but - -?? :?
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline hotrod

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2016, 03:33:08 PM »
When you get press credentials they do give you a rules sheet that outlines what are acceptable locations to take pictures from etc.

All they would need to do would be to add a line or two that specifies rules for drone use on the salt.
They need not even specify specific rules only make it by permission only so qualified professionals could use them for major features etc.
but the safety team would be able to approve they types of usage that they would allow on a case by case basis.

As I mentioned as popular as they are it is inevitable that you will see them out on the salt. Best to issue guidelines ahead of time.

Offline hotrod

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2016, 04:01:26 PM »
It appears that the FAA registration process accomplishes many of the steps which would be needed.
The types of drones of interest (ie heavy enough to carry a camera or gopro type video) would almost all fall under that guide line.

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=84386

Note the safety guidelines at the end of the article.
• Fly below 400 feet altitude.
• Keep your unmanned aircraft in sight at all times.
• Never fly near manned aircraft, especially near airports. (this would ground drones if we had a helicopter in the air I would think)
• Never fly over groups of people, stadiums or sporting events. (this takes care of the over people and crowds issue)
• Never fly near emergency response efforts.

Those guidelines would be a very good start for how when and where drones could be operated.
Adding a line about tethered operations to ensure positive control could also be considered in special cases.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2016, 04:07:50 PM »
When you get press credentials they do give you a rules sheet that outlines what are acceptable locations to take pictures from etc.

All they would need to do would be to add a line or two that specifies rules for drone use on the salt.
They need not even specify specific rules only make it by permission only so qualified professionals could use them for major features etc.
but the safety team would be able to approve they types of usage that they would allow on a case by case basis.

As I mentioned as popular as they are it is inevitable that you will see them out on the salt. Best to issue guidelines ahead of time.

That would cover the folks that actually get press passes... and maybe the .001% of drone owners that actually know the rules... how do we work the 10% of the Spectators and 5% of participants that are droning around....
Oh wait, I know, group drone control with porta-potties since that guy is Seldom Seen Racing  :evil:  :cheers:
Stainless
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Offline distributorguy

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Re: Drones At Bonneville
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2016, 04:56:36 PM »

Its funny that people here have irrational fears of a drone wrecking their run or their car, but they they're not afraid of driving over 200 mph. 
 

Respectfully, I don't know that it's an irrational fear.

There are so many drones out there now that are so cheaply built that I question their quality.


I understand where you're coming from.  If "the powers that be" use even half the savvy they do with racer safety, photographers with drones won't become an issue.  They should only be allowed in the hands of professional photographers/videographers with REAL credentials.  Then there's no problem, and it won't turn into "cheap junk crashing into stuff" that everyone probably should be afraid of.  Maybe even offer a procedure to earn a license to operate drones near the track?  I know - one more intelligent volunteer needed.  There could be a breif checklist/test to qualify a drone operator and weed out the hacks with Walmart toys.   
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 
Racing is the evil modification of insanity.