Author Topic: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT  (Read 35987 times)

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Offline widgeon

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REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« on: March 07, 2016, 07:13:55 PM »
I KNOW THIS IS WAY TOO EASY AND PRACTICAL BUT WHAT IS THE PILE SALE SALT LOCATED JUST WEST OF SALT LAKE CITY (MORTON SALT MAYBE NOT SURE) WORTH?  IF THE SALT FLATS ARE BASICALLY TREATED AS A NATIONAL PARK BY THE GOVERNMENT, WHY DOESN'T THIS MAKE SENSE FOR THEM TO PURCHASE THIS SALT AND MAYBE A BIT MORE IF NEEDED AND REPLENISH THE SALT FLATS.  THE MONIES THEY MAKE OFF ALL OF SALT RACING, THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY, ADVERTISING, MUST BE HUGE.  I WOULD THINK THIS COULD BE A "WIN-WIN"  SITUATION FOR ALL. THIS COULD EVEN BE A NICE PARTNERSHIP WITH MANY ORGANIZATIONS AND SUPPORTERS AND MAYBE A PARTIAL DONATION FROM MORTON SALT WOULD BE A NICE JESTER? JUST A THOUGHT............I KNOW IT WON'T WORK!     RICH

Offline Stainless1

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 07:20:17 PM »
No need to shout or haul salt from Morton.... they have the salt they removed and haven't sold yet right across the road... they just need to put it back.
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Offline widgeon

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2016, 07:24:55 PM »
What's that mean.....in english?????
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 07:27:35 PM by widgeon »

Offline jacksoni

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2016, 07:36:31 PM »
sorta same as this: "MORTON SALT WOULD BE A NICE JESTER". What the BLM is .....
Jack Iliff
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Offline Dynoroom

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016, 07:38:16 PM »
What Stainless means is the salt from the Bonneville Salt Flats is on the other side of I-80. Just a few miles away. They havn't used it all yet, It needs to be returned...
Michael LeFevers
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Offline widgeon

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016, 07:44:20 PM »
"THANKS" MIKE FOR THE EDUCATION.....I KNEW IT WAS TOO EASY. THANKS, RICH

Offline noboD

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2016, 02:43:01 AM »
How did the salt get placed a mile away across the road? If the mining Co. did it in their process why wouldn't they be required to put it back?

Offline Freud

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2016, 12:48:45 PM »
Does anyone understand that You can ask questions that no one can answer?

FREUD
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Offline crawford

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2016, 01:11:02 PM »
The salt across the road is mostly from deep brine wells and are pulled from water pumped 1000 feet under the Bonneville salt flats. Now comes the important part of all of this, the Bonneville salt flats are 100 sq miles, and only a small part of its is used for racing. The brine processed is mostly from the areas that do not produce the hard racing surface. Now if you where to pack all of the salt onto your race track, how long do you think it would take it to desolve and then come back up to produce a track, answer a really long time.
   So maybe we should try to work on solutions that make sense. Lets use a little science here, and maybe listen to people that have more knowlege.
Current Mayor of Wendover Utah, and life long race fan. owns Wendover Carquest auto-parts.

Offline Eddieschopshop

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 02:20:56 PM »
If all the salt is being pumped from under ground,  why are all the ditches/levies running all over the place? It seems hard to believe from a "science" stand point that removing salt from the overall system wouldn't remove salt from the surface as well.

Offline bbarn

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 02:57:39 PM »
If all the salt is being pumped from under ground,  why are all the ditches/levies running all over the place? It seems hard to believe from a "science" stand point that removing salt from the overall system wouldn't remove salt from the surface as well.

Rainwater and returned pumping water does not contain a high enough concentration of salt. As such, the new water (rain or returned brine) simply picks up the salt it needs to get to back to its saturation level then drains back into the ground.

Tom Burkland gave a good talk on this at PRI. It seems that the salt needs to be a 28% solution (or 28ppm - I forget)  to prevent it picking up any surface salt but only 26% solution can be pumped without causing mechanical precipitation of the salt from solution.

So, deep water brine is pumped to the evaporating ponds. A 26% solution is pumped back to the flats and it rains. That water collects salt from the track and runs back into the ground and the process starts again. This cycle has been going on for a long time. This is what is causing the track to deteriorate.
I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.

Offline crawford

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2016, 08:19:38 PM »
so the surface salt is going back into the brine clay and being pump out, wow, you really don't know alot about the salt flats.
Current Mayor of Wendover Utah, and life long race fan. owns Wendover Carquest auto-parts.

Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2016, 08:51:46 AM »
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Offline Steve Cole

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2016, 11:38:43 AM »
If you read that USGS paper and the conclusion this line from the report pretty well sums up what we have all been thinking


“Indicate that brine withdrawal is a major cause of salt loss from the crust.”


Now one has to wonder if they are going to do anything about it.

Offline bbarn

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Re: REPLENISHMENT OF SALT
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2016, 11:54:10 AM »
so the surface salt is going back into the brine clay and being pump out, wow, you really don't know alot about the salt flats.

Model simulations, in which the
1992 rate of withdrawal from the
brine-collection ditch east of the salt
crust and average climatic conditions
were used, indicate that brine
withdrawal is a major cause of salt
loss from the crust. Other than the
cycling of fluid and solute through the
playa surface each year, subsurface
brine flow and solute transport to the
brine-collection ditches east and south
of the salt crust are the largest
contributors to salt removal
from the
shallow-brine aquifer.
Model
simulations do not account for the
occasional loss of salt from the crust
by extensive flooding described
previously.

In English - Water is moving salt from one place to another. It does this by dissolving salt into a solution and uses natural water flow to transport the salt. Water that is already saturated will not pickup more salt. Water that falls as rain can dissolve the most salt as it likely has very low amounts of dissolved salt in solution. Water that is mechanically pumped cannot contain the maximum saturation level of salt because the mechanical action lowers the saturation point of the solution.

Therefore, fresh and pumped water onto the salt surface dissolves salt. Proof of this is that the mining companies use a brine solution to move what they are mining from point A to point B. The aquifer under the flats is a brine aquifer, that means it has salt in it.

How do you think that salt got there? You think the ocean flows under the lake bed?

The water that falls or is pumped onto the racing surface dissolves the salt and moves it into the aquifer either through collection ditches or through natural leeching into the soil. This is not rocket surgery, sorcery or witchcraft but rather basic 8th grade natural science.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 11:56:39 AM by bbarn »
I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.