EPA

[Polyhead]

Ben,
     Judging by your previous statements I suspect that you have not actually been to any of the events at the Bonneville Salt Flats.

I haven't.  I'm telling you what things look like on the surface of it.  I'm telling you why people aren't interested.  Some people don't want to listen to that aparently.  Instead of listening they would rather tell me i'm a fool and to piss off.  That sort of thing is NOT going to help your cause.  It'll do exactly the opposite even.

My judgement is that to run any more than the single 130mph club event, I need $10,000 worth of truck and trailer, $100,000 worth of property to store those things, in addition to $20,000 in race car.  Nobody seems to have any interest at all at looking into events to attract more persons with less invested.  And then wonder why you can't get more attention for your cause... i'm telling you.. that right there IS the reason.

It's not a judgement of a personal nature, it's not a judgement at all really.  It's an observation of simple facts.  To go run on a drag strip the only thing you need is a car of any kind, including your mom's minivan, and a helmet.  There are things that could be done with LSR in general that would attract more people.  You attract more people to the scene in general and it will benefit bonneville.  I don't understand why certain persons have to have such a vile reaction to the mere sugestion that there are things they could do to help themselves.  It's like dealing with a drug addict in that respect...

[Polyhead]

The idea that LSR is not attracting new participants is ludicrous. Compared to years ago when there would be maybe 110-120 entrants for the one meet a year. All in a single line for the single course. Both short and long course cars and bikes. Often not starting runs until noon or so after record runs. Now you have 6 meets for cars and bikes, scheduled to run, weather permitting. Four courses for some meets. And all this without BNI or anyone else soliciting entrants. LSR is run by participants for participants. Has this growth affected me? Yes. Rooms are harder to get and cost a lot more. So while you were pursuing your many other interests involving kids and dogs, The hobby has grown quite nicely. If you want something that may change their rules to accommodate your car, Have you looked into the 24 hours of lemons?

kids and dogs?  I kind of hate both.  I don't follow you there.

It's not to accomodate MY car, it's to get more people in.  The statement was "why doesn't save the salt get any traction."  I'm telling you, this is why....My car has nothing to do with this.  Now if you guys want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the situtation and just hope it'll get better, be my guest.  I don't think it'll work out though.

[Stan Back]

The situation is that the SCTA SpeedWeek event is attracting more participants very year.  Even when they can't have a meet.  Thank goodness that you have found a way for them to expand their customer base.

The El Mirage meets are overflowing with entries -- so many that it's hard to get one run (that's all that's possible with one course) done in a day.  We need people like you to help us grow.

Quit the bitchin' or look elsewhere.  Everyone here has demonstrated a willingness to help you.  You just keep running down an organization and have ALL the answers to ALL the questions asked or implied.  We welcome you to join in.  No -- you can't take your Poly home and shut us down.  We've met you (and your brothers) before.  Join in, pay attention, make reasonable suggestions, and be a part of the process.  Or not.

[RichFox]

Kids and dogs comes from my Googling you and your stated interests. My first trip to the salt was in '66. At that time there were 82 classes for cars. Bikes had their own book I guess. one meet a year. 82 classes. take it or leave it. BNi, USFRA, Cook and the bike meet have considerably expanded that since then. And it seems like every year this board attracts someone who says, "I really love what your doing. I have always wanted to do it myself. It's my dream to do what you do. But, I want you to change it to make it more like what i can do without all the effort." SpeedWeek doesn't need more entries to survive. Or more classes that do not require lots of preparation. It needs good weather and some way to keep salt on the course. The dike idea seems best to me. But people who are much better informed than I are working on it. They have been for years. I can only support their efforts. 

[dw230]

"My judgement is that to run any more than the single 130mph club event, I need $10,000 worth of truck and trailer, $100,000 worth of property to store those things, in addition to $20,000 in race car.  Nobody seems to have any interest at all at looking into events to attract more persons with less invested.  And then wonder why you can't get more attention for your cause... i'm telling you.. that right there IS the reason."

Seems like the cost to compete is driving you off. Bonneville and its increasing entry lists is the top of the list, creme de la creme. To run there is to join the elite, if you can't compete within the rules take your stuff to NASCAR and see if they will take you.

DW

[Stainless1]

Well Ben, if you want to run a street car at the drags that is allowed.... granny's minivan or your old car... 16 seconds and 75 MPH... sure... lots of folks can do that.... but what if you want to run 10 seconds.... oh... or 7 seconds... check the investment, lots of us have been there as well.  They have safety requirements just like us.
Most of us oldsters that race at Bonneville understand that going fast costs money and the faster you go the more safety equipment is required.  That means spending money on racing.   Our heads are not in the sand... or where ever you must have yours. 
If you want to race the salt on a budget, go check your first threads and posts, you answers are already in print from a lot of good folks that don't owe you anything!
I would suggest if you want to continue here you clean up your act... pay attention to the advice you are given and stop acting like a spoiled kid. This is probably my last post in response to your questions and comments.... if you don't want help stay the course 
  

[mergatroyd]

Mergatroyd, that's the thing. How hard will they enforce it? The letter of the law says that it is illegal to modify a vehicle in such a way that it will affect the emissions. Even changing a tire size can to that, since that will change the rpm at a given speed. This would mean that having a "tune" on a computer controlled car would be illegal, even if it only affected emissions at full throttle. This is definitely not a good thing.

I'm ignoring all the discussion about BNI/SCTA marketing/rules.

Dan,

Sorry, I forgot to use the sarcasm smiley...

I am not in favor of the EPA rule, and I do not think that a promise to "only enforce it where we think it matters" is relevant when the fine is the price of a new car.  One of the draws to LSR for me is the opportunity for innovation.  The EPA rule as I understand it kills anything interesting about motorsport from an amateur perspective. 

No more engine swaps, no more fuel other than what the manufacturer used, and no more noise.

[RichFox]

My judgement is that to run any more than the single 130mph club event, I need $10,000 worth of truck and trailer, $100,000 worth of property to store those things, in addition to $20,000 in race car.  Nobody seems to have any interest at all at looking into events to attract more persons with less invested.  And then wonder why you can't get more attention for your cause... i'm telling you.. that right there IS the reason.
...............................................................................It seems as though you are realizing what all of us know, that racing at Bonneville requires a level of dedication. Some do and you could rent a truck for the trip. I started off with a home made trailer. Junk yard parts but made a lot of trips to the salt and lake. I keep my race car in the garage her at my house. i don't think $100,000 will qualify you for a down payment. But I have to live somewhere and that's the way it goes around here. I don't know how the 130 club could be more accommodating to someone wanting to run a street car. If you or anyone finds the requirements to hard to deal with, you never really wanted to run in the first place.

[Polyhead]

. I don't know how the 130 club could be more accommodating to someone wanting to run a street car. If you or anyone finds the requirements to hard to deal with, you never really wanted to run in the first place.

Well for a start, they could clarify that rule about skid plates for fuel lines on unit body cars..... I mean, I THINK they are only talking about rear engine cars... but then again.....the way it's worded who the hell knows.  And I've yet to get a reply from the USFRA on this...  It's been a month....

I'm not even talking about any of that.  I think the 130mph club thing is fine, but it's a single event held once and at only one place.  It's not much of an out reach.  It's not going make the levels of awareness of the sport that the NHRA, IHRA, and NASCAR have, that's why they get more attention and can muster more signatures faster for their causes.  Do you want to throw your hands in the air and say "well we can't be them we'll just have to live with it" or do you want to try something else?  Sitting around and expecting the government to do the right thing without some serious prodding and bad press seems delusional to me.  It's not a dig at anyone, It's just the way our government works.

As far as a garage goes... hah.. yeah... I won't be able to afford that living in Portland, not on the pay a machinist makes.

[RichFox]

Are you a member of USFRA? Do you think that would help? Do you think Portland is more expensive than the SF Bay area? Doubt it. I'm a machinist. Many of my friends are machinists. I bought the cheapest house with a two car garage within 20 miles of the airport that qualified for a GI no down. It was a wreck. Lived in it and cleaned it up and sold it and bought a larger house near the golf course. Did the same. Bought another house in Parkside and this house I live in now. Knocked out the back wall of the garage and extended it back to make it 84 feet front to back. Poured a drive way around thee house to the two 8 foot doors in back. Yes it was a lot of work and a lot of OT to pay for all this. And I had to stay out of bars to save time and money. But then I had a place to build my first Bonneville car. I could have thrown up my hands and given up. If you want to race, race. If you would rather pose that's up to you.

[Polyhead]

Are you a member of USFRA? Do you think that would help? Do you think Portland is more expensive than the SF Bay area? Doubt it. I'm a machinist. Many of my friends are machinists. I bought the cheapest house with a two car garage within 20 miles of the airport that qualified for a GI no down. It was a wreck. Lived in it and cleaned it up and sold it and bought a larger house near the golf course. Did the same. Bought another house in Parkside and this house I live in now. Knocked out the back wall of the garage and extended it back to make it 84 feet front to back. Poured a drive way around thee house to the two 8 foot doors in back. Yes it was a lot of work and a lot of OT to pay for all this. And I had to stay out of bars to save time and money. But then I had a place to build my first Bonneville car. I could have thrown up my hands and given up. If you want to race, race. If you would rather pose that's up to you.

overtime isn't even an option for most people in portland right now.  Certainly not where I work.  In fact I'm lucky to get 40 hours at this point.  We're shut down again on Monday.  But property prices are the same as the bay area at this point.  There's a very serious housing crisis in portland right now.  But since the economy still isn't very good, most jobs aren't paying that well.  It's a real shit sandwhich out here right now.  I'm just going to have to leave portland, that's all there is too it.  Get out while I can still afford to get out.  Funny enough the prices are up because of the influx of people out of the bay area.

[mergatroyd]

Are you a member of USFRA? Do you think that would help? Do you think Portland is more expensive than the SF Bay area? Doubt it. I'm a machinist. Many of my friends are machinists. I bought the cheapest house with a two car garage within 20 miles of the airport that qualified for a GI no down. It was a wreck. Lived in it and cleaned it up and sold it and bought a larger house near the golf course. Did the same. Bought another house in Parkside and this house I live in now. Knocked out the back wall of the garage and extended it back to make it 84 feet front to back. Poured a drive way around thee house to the two 8 foot doors in back. Yes it was a lot of work and a lot of OT to pay for all this. And I had to stay out of bars to save time and money. But then I had a place to build my first Bonneville car. I could have thrown up my hands and given up. If you want to race, race. If you would rather pose that's up to you.

overtime isn't even an option for most people in portland right now.  Certainly not where I work.  In fact I'm lucky to get 40 hours at this point.  We're shut down again on Monday.  But property prices are the same as the bay area at this point.  There's a very serious housing crisis in portland right now.  But since the economy still isn't very good, most jobs aren't paying that well.  It's a real Subaru sandwhich out here right now.  I'm just going to have to leave portland, that's all there is too it.  Get out while I can still afford to get out.  Funny enough the prices are up because of the influx of people out of the bay area.

Motorcycles.  Way cheaper and smaller than cars.

[Polyhead]

Are you a member of USFRA? Do you think that would help? Do you think Portland is more expensive than the SF Bay area? Doubt it. I'm a machinist. Many of my friends are machinists. I bought the cheapest house with a two car garage within 20 miles of the airport that qualified for a GI no down. It was a wreck. Lived in it and cleaned it up and sold it and bought a larger house near the golf course. Did the same. Bought another house in Parkside and this house I live in now. Knocked out the back wall of the garage and extended it back to make it 84 feet front to back. Poured a drive way around thee house to the two 8 foot doors in back. Yes it was a lot of work and a lot of OT to pay for all this. And I had to stay out of bars to save time and money. But then I had a place to build my first Bonneville car. I could have thrown up my hands and given up. If you want to race, race. If you would rather pose that's up to you.

overtime isn't even an option for most people in portland right now.  Certainly not where I work.  In fact I'm lucky to get 40 hours at this point.  We're shut down again on Monday.  But property prices are the same as the bay area at this point.  There's a very serious housing crisis in portland right now.  But since the economy still isn't very good, most jobs aren't paying that well.  It's a real Subaru sandwhich out here right now.  I'm just going to have to leave portland, that's all there is too it.  Get out while I can still afford to get out.  Funny enough the prices are up because of the influx of people out of the bay area.

Motorcycles.  Way cheaper and smaller than cars.

Yeah....I know... The thought has been there.  Especially after the One Of show last night.

[SPARKY]

I have crewed both--- MCc are much smaller and easier to live with on and off the Salt

[bearingburner]

In 40 years of industry I never got 1hr of O.T. Some places gave comp time but when I couldn't take all my vacation time what good was comp time . The last place I worked I left the 1st Of June with 30 days of comp time coming and 3 weeks of vacation which was all forfeited.
   Both Willmington and Loring have a 135 MPH limit class for "street cars" with no safety equipment except stock seatbelts and helmet.