AN fittings on hardline

[Polyhead]

New week, new questions from everyone's "favorite" n00b.

I've seen a couple of different setups for using AN fittings on hard line.  Some of them require the tubing be flared, some of them use a compression type fitting.  I've used compression fittings before for air lines and oil lines, but never for fuel and never to work with AN fittings.  The compression fitting type sure does look easy to work with but flaring is probably safer... until the flare splits.  I wondering what you guys prefer and why.  I'm going to start replumbing the fuel system to convert it to a full return system, and I've noticed summit racing doesn't actually carry any NPT to inverted flare fittings anymore, only npt to AN.  Is it time to retire the double flaring tool?

[manta22]

Yes. AN fittings don't require double flares since they use a ferrule. AN fittings are all 37 degree flare angles, not 45 degrees like JIC or SAE, so you can't intermix those types with AN.

AN fittings and aluminum tubing is commonly used for fuel and oil lines. They are reliable and simple to assemble. Parker makes a line of nice tools- tubing cutters, tubing benders, flaring tools, and beading tools. Good stuff can sometimes be found in aircraft surplus stores or eBay.

For AN to NPT adapters, check out Speedway Motors, Aircraft Spruce, or Pegasus Racing.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Polyhead]

Yes. AN fittings don't require double flares since they use a ferrule. AN fittings are all 37 degree flare angles, not 45 degrees like JIC or SAE, so you can't intermix those types with AN.

AN fittings and aluminum tubing is commonly used for fuel and oil lines. They are reliable and simple to assemble. Parker makes a line of nice tools- tubing cutters, tubing benders, flaring tools, and beading tools. Good stuff can sometimes be found in aircraft surplus stores or eBay.

For AN to NPT adapters, check out Speedway Motors, Aircraft Spruce, or Pegasus Racing.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

"• All non OEM fuel lines must be constructed of rubber, braided, or steel hard line. No aluminum/copper hard line or clear plastic hose will be allowed."

Another rule specific to the 130/150mph club event that differs from SCTA rules.  So I have to use steel in the case of hardline on my ride.

[RichFox]

You may be talking about MS type of fittings. Used quite a but in aircraft. But I never see it sold locally. If you are thinking AN. The nonaircraft version of 37 degree plumbing is called JIC. And it's a lot cheaper. Still plenty good for anything we do. I get mine from Discount Hydraulics on line.

[Polyhead]

You may be talking about MS type of fittings. Used quite a but in aircraft. But I never see it sold locally. If you are thinking AN. The nonaircraft version of 37 degree plumbing is called JIC. And it's a lot cheaper. Still plenty good for anything we do. I get mine from Discount Hydraulics on line.

Well, summit racing calls them AN fittings?  I honestly have no clue.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-at165086erl/overview/

There are various other brands using the same mechanism.  I'm only looking into it because it seems to me NPT to inverted flare fittings are getting hard to come by from jegs and summit.  Not to mention inverted flares have always been a pain to make.  But a search on summit shows npt to AN fittings, and inverted flare to AN fittings, but no NPT to inverted flare.  All the fuel pumps, filters and regulators I'm looking at either have an NPT fitting or an AN fitting, nothing has inverted flare anymore.  Kind of tells me inverted flare is on it's way out.  I've got enough headaches with this project, and I hate doing plumbing, so i'm going to try and go with the flow on this detail at least.

[4-barrel Mike]

Excellent videos and tutorials here: https://www.anplumbing.com/

Mike

[Polyhead]

Excellent videos and tutorials here: https://www.anplumbing.com/

Mike

That's a nice site, but, still not answering my question.  I'm asking if the compression fitting style hardline ends actually f-ing work.

[Peter Jack]

Excellent videos and tutorials here: https://www.anplumbing.com/

Mike

That's a nice site, but, still not answering my question.  I'm asking if the compression fitting style hardline ends actually f-ing work.

Yes. They're SOP in many other forms of racing and well proven for many years.

Pete

[manta22]

Yes, they work if done right. Swagelock would be my choice.

BTW, I was not addressing the SCTA rule book on aluminum hard line & AN fittings; if aluminum is not allowed, stainless steel AN fittings & stainless steel AN fittings are available- usually found in 3,000psi hydraulic systems.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Polyhead]

Thanks guys.

Pete, I hear you on swagelok.  I was watching videos about them last night, and reading up on them this morning.  (I've got time since I'm on the injured list at work, I keep telling them you don't need discs in you're back but they ain't havin' it) They appear to be superior in every way, save for maybe fasten/unfasten cycles.  Looks to me like swagelok is designed to be cycled a few dozen times but not a lot more where AN fittings are designed to be cycled on and off hundreds of times.  I'm going to price things out to see what it would cost just to go swagelok the entire way vs. AN fittings.  The swagelok two collet design is defintely superior to the compression fitting based AN adapters I'm seeing which use only a single collet.

Maybe a better idea is to use swagelok in the areas that will be disassembled rarely (fuel pump, fuel tank, regulators) and AN in areas where frequent disassembly or connections to flexible line are needed such as fuel filter connections, connections from frame rail to engine, and connection to the carburetor.  But then you get into the problem of having a mix of connectors which can be seen as bad practice.  Then again, using a mix because you want to play to the strengths of each connector is good engineering.  Also AN fittings may be easier to track down at a meet if I get myself in a bind.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it so much.  There are plenty of cars on the planet that use nothing but rubber line, nipple fittings and hose clamps.  There are also a lot of burned up cars in the world.

[RichFox]

My cars use all AN and JIC. NPT to 37 degree are all JIC. Mostly stainless but without the FAA approval. I can not understand mixing fasteners. The advantage escapes me. 37 degree flares in steel tubing are very easy to make.

[Polyhead]

My cars use all AN and JIC. NPT to 37 degree are all JIC. Mostly stainless but without the FAA approval. I can not understand mixing fasteners. The advantage escapes me. 37 degree flares in steel tubing are very easy to make.

Because swagelok doesn't require a flare and makes a stronger more leak proof joint than a flare but is limited in regards to the number of on and off operations it'll withstand before you have to cut the end of the pipe off and install a new fitting.  Might be cheaper too, having trouble finding prices on any of the swagelok stuff.  Seems that, if you have to ask....

Also, so JIC and AN are interchangable then?  I realized they were both 37 degree but I thought the threading was going to be different or something.

[Peter Jack]

You're better off to stick with one or the other. The only time you'll have a  problem with mixing things up is when it's most difficult to correct the problem. That philosophy comes from hard won experience. 

Pete

[RichFox]

Yes JIC and AN are the same except the AN fittings have FAA aproval. As far as I am concerned the "AN" fittings you get from Earls and such are made of bubble gum and I would have been in real trouble had I ever used one on an aircraft.

[Polyhead]

So since I had the day off, I decided to go for a little ride.  Swagelok have a Portland office.  Having learned that, I decided to go over and look at things.  I'm sold, and the staff there really hooked me up.  I do apologize... I guess I asked about AN and now have decided to go in a compleatly different direction but I really like the swadgelok stuff better.  It's made of steel and designed to last forever.  What really sold me was the peice of 3/4" stainless tubing that hard pressurized to 340,000psi, where it burst.  The pipe failed, but the connectors were seemingly undamaged.  You could still assemble and disassemble the joint.

They also showed me several fittings they make so that their system can be adapted to work with AN systems.

Like RichFox said, the other stuff was made of "bubble gum" and I feel the same way when I look at those fittings.  It won't look as "race", it'll look more like industrial.

Also... swag... nothing makes me happy like swag.

https://goo.gl/photos/5acdeSupxcKqeMHdA