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Author Topic: Speed Demon Wind Tunnel Test  (Read 18761 times)
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racergeo
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« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2019, 09:33:16 PM »

   Oh, Rex, I'm not one to correct anyone on this site. BUT Yacoucci is running GAS. Are you kidding me. 409 exit on gas? E class. What will they think of next. I doubt if Jack thought one of his cars would ever go 400. I listened to an interview Rick gave at SEMA and I think he has the bug to run some big numbers. evil evil
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« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2019, 11:22:57 PM »

Cars are not my expertise so do not take these comments too seriously.  It seems a flat bottomed vehicle designed to be stable with limited bottom to ground clearance might work well in those conditions.  Going over a bump on the salt at speed, where the front of the car rises and takes a big gulp of air under the vehicle, might lead to unanticipated stability issues.
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« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2019, 09:55:07 AM »

I have a trophy from 2000 when we ran my Nissan engine in the 788 car. We set records at Muroc and El Mirage in 99. The car had been running for several years by then. And it was preceded by the very similar NT2 car that Rick drove to 368 I think. Later Jim and Mary True would set several records in that car. Jack had been well over 300 in NT3 with Al Liest's 300 inch SBC years before he ran my Nissan. All together they may have 1000 runs on NT2 and 3. Anyone who thinks they don't work or will crash must not be paying attention.
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« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2019, 05:51:00 PM »

   I was just going to mention Jacks trademark 10" wide ten ft. long nose. Not much change of catching air on the famous salt "jumps". I think you (Rich) have summed up the numbers nicely grin Rick also has more seat time then nearly anyone currently racing. I doubt  he would think there was more speed in the design if he was noticing high speed instability. Worst case, LEAD
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« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2019, 01:34:55 AM »


 The new HOT ROD (May) has an excellent article on Poteet's LS based Dart head and block engine. It details ever aspect of the engine including spec, clearance and manufactures. Also discloses the problems they found the fix for. Anyone with just a couple hundred thousand $ could take the info in this story and easily replicate the results. I literally can't believe the detailed info for anyone that can read. Kenny Duttweiler, the Rembrandt of land speed  cheesy
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fordboy628
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« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2019, 08:18:14 AM »


 The new HOT ROD (May) has an excellent article on Poteet's LS based Dart head and block engine. It details ever aspect of the engine including spec, clearance and manufactures. Also discloses the problems they found the fix for. Anyone with just a couple hundred thousand $ could take the info in this story and easily replicate the results. I literally can't believe the detailed info for anyone that can read. Kenny Duttweiler, the Rembrandt of land speed  cheesy


Hi Racergeo,

I'm not trying to upset anybody with this post, I'm just trying to inject a bit of reality about the process of "building racing engines".    Racing engines are, for the most part, simple and reliable lumps of machinery.   But they are "sensitive" to certain conditions, and respond poorly to some types of "abuse".

IMO, and I've been doing this a long time, there is little to no danger to the efforts of Mr. Poteet, Mr. Main, or Mr. Duttweiler in this situation.    "Revealing your secrets" in a magazine article, is a far cry from "coherent duplication".   The article may provide a reasonable "road map" for other "professionals", but does little for the average "enthusiast", except to provide fodder for bar room "discussion".

My reasoning is thus:

A/   "Anyone with a couple of hundred thousand dollars . . ."     Possession of the parts, does not predicate knowledge of the "complete" process . . . .
2/   Magazine articles of this nature typically are "incomplete".     I have never seen an article where "every last detail" was printed . . . . .   and trust me, much is left out.
d/   Readers do NOT get: Mr. Duttweiler's experience or work ethic from the magazine article.    The ability of "consummate professionals" is often under-rated, IMHO . . . . .

And finally:

A statement I have heard often is:   "I can build an engine as good as anybody."    To which my response (on a diplomatic day) might be:   "Well, uhhmm, NO, you can't."

My reasons:
1/   Enthusiast built engines, seldom achieve target bhp.    Various reasons for these "phenomena",  but most often it is lack of attention to details, such as:
      a/   Unrealistic expectations  (this could be a book . . . .)
      b/   Properly timing the cam(s)
      c/   Properly calculating compression ratio
      d/   Properly measuring clearances
      e/   Properly tensioning fasteners
      f/    Lack of investment in the actual time required to perform a task properly  (ie: rush job)
2/   Lack of proper tools for the above, lack of tool maintenance, lack of tool certification, improper use of these tools . . . . .
3/   Wrong attitude about the actual responsibility of checking every last detail of the assembly.

I could go on and on, but I'll spare everyone and stop by saying this:    After "enthusiast built" engines perform poorly on the dyno, the company I work for gets hired to fix them.

 cheers  Dead Horse  cheers
Fordboy
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« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2019, 10:51:12 PM »

   Jeez, fordboy289 evil, Thanks for for your insightful response to my totally "tongue in cheek" post so that Tom "DeSoto Man" and several others that have let their Hot Rod lapse can be informed. He and many on this site that are closet millionaires have been waiting for the very info in that article to make their move. grin I for one have already calibrated my Harbor Freight plastic dial caliper with my 1" rebar. I ordered a new sleeve of Plastigauge and of course got out my 180 grit ball hone. wink I totally understand where you're coming from, in that Kenny has built such a de-tuned engine that the expectation of realizing 2600 Hp is effortless. cheesy
  So tell me what gave you the idea I was addressing "average enthusiasts" on this site? Name one average person. I for one would like to attain average, but have been BELOW so long I'm just used to it. cheers
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« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2019, 12:32:13 AM »

Wherever I am- closet millionaire or closet pauper, above or below average enthusiast- I found the Speed Demon article as interesting as anything I've read in Hot Rod in the last fifty years. rolleyes
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« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2019, 12:53:17 AM »

   9 pages of photos and descriptions by HOT ROD'S best technical writer, Marlan Davis. Ya, Jack I agree with you.  :-)Fun to read what George has up his sleeve, like an extra 30 mph.
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« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2019, 07:05:46 AM »

  Jeez, fordboy289 evil, Thanks for for your insightful response to my totally "tongue in cheek" post so that Tom "DeSoto Man" and several others that have let their Hot Rod lapse can be informed. He and many on this site that are closet millionaires have been waiting for the very info in that article to make their move. grin I for one have already calibrated my Harbor Freight plastic dial caliper with my 1" rebar. I ordered a new sleeve of Plastigauge and of course got out my 180 grit ball hone. wink I totally understand where you're coming from, in that Kenny has built such a de-tuned engine that the expectation of realizing 2600 Hp is effortless. cheesy
  So tell me what gave you the idea I was addressing "average enthusiasts" on this site? Name one average person. I for one would like to attain average, but have been BELOW so long I'm just used to it. cheers

Wherever I am- closet millionaire or closet pauper, above or below average enthusiast- I found the Speed Demon article as interesting as anything I've read in Hot Rod in the last fifty years. rolleyes

  9 pages of photos and descriptions by HOT ROD'S best technical writer, Marlan Davis. Ya, Jack I agree with you.  :-)Fun to read what George has up his sleeve, like an extra 30 mph.


 The new HOT ROD (May) has an excellent article on Poteet's LS based Dart head and block engine. It details ever aspect of the engine including spec, clearance and manufactures. Also discloses the problems they found the fix for. Anyone with just a couple hundred thousand $ could take the info in this story and easily replicate the results. I literally can't believe the detailed info for anyone that can read. Kenny Duttweiler, the Rembrandt of land speed  cheesy

Hi Racergeo,

I'm not trying to upset anybody with this post, I'm just trying to inject a bit of reality about the process of "building racing engines".

 cheers  Dead Horse  cheers
Fordboy

Hi again Racergeo,

My apologies for addressing my post to you.   You personally, were not the focus of my post,   I was trying to address, poorly done, (my bad), non-posting members and what the owner and moderators label "lurkers", ie, those who glean the board for ideas and information, yet will not sign up or contribute.

However, members of this forum, in spite of what each of them thinks of themselves, are NOT equals.    Consider that for a moment.   And let me make some points:

NOT equal in finances
NOT equal in work ethic or time allotted for completion
NOT equal engineering ability or execution
NOT equal in machining ability
NOT equal in fabricating ability
NOT equal in welding ability

I could go on, but I won't.   I don't consider this a "bad" thing.   Members can learn from other member's "skill sets", and the "idea exchange" is helpful at all levels.   Kudos to any member who is willing to allow every other member, and lurkers, to view their experience, and gain from that what they can.   I wish I had Jack G's machining skills and Peter J's welding skills, and I could go on with this list too.

So my opinion is that the most important difference about members of this forum is those that spend time posting Vs. those who do not.   When you peruse the membership list, you will notice that most members DO NOT post anything.  This does not begin to consider the "lurkers".     So members who post, set themselves above average by being engaged in the process of attempting to spread their information and knowledge.  These are NOT the folks my comments were intended for.    My comments were intended for the much larger audience of "non-contributors", you know the ones, the "I can build an engine as good as anybody" crowd.

It is quite likely that I have become cranky as I have aged, but I give no apology for that, in the same way that the foolhardy give no apology for being "stupidy".  But any members here who felt I directed my comments at them, I sincerely apologize.

I'm just at the end of my run, and I'm "disappointed", and cranky!  So I'll restrain myself from commenting on these topics in the future.   You'll be able to find me on the river, out fishing.

 Dead Horse  cheers  Dead Horse
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 07:26:46 AM by fordboy628 » Logged

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« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2019, 05:15:34 PM »


Tom "DeSoto Man" and several others that have let their Hot Rod lapse can be informed. He and many on this site that are closet millionaires have been waiting for the very info in that article to make their move.


George, Where was that closet that I have all those millions in? Since you posted that on here, I have tore every closet I have apart looking for that money. I am so tired right now as I have not had time to sleep I have been so busy. I did find some things I forgot I had though so it was not a total loss. I found my old Greeves Jersey, leathers, and MX Boots from 45 years ago. So that was good. grin

I wish I would have found that money though, as I would have been able to call Marlo up and talk turkey, and even get your car fixed for you.  cool

PS. I still do get Hot Rod and yes George's new motor is very nice and the article was good, I was more impressed with the article on page 54 about Mike Moran Twin Turbo billet Hemi, JMO, but I like spark plugs in the center of the valve cover.  cheers

Fordboy says:

I'm just at the end of my run, and I'm "disappointed", and cranky!  So I'll restrain myself from commenting on these topics in the future.   You'll be able to find me on the river, out fishing.


Let me know where that fishing hole is and I will join you. But until then keep on posting as we will  have plenty of time for fishing in the future.   cheers

Tom G.
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Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers. As a young boy I was always taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.
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« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2019, 08:32:16 PM »

   Tom, I'll take you off my 'Go Fund Me" list as you hid that stash to well. Try under the mattress just one more time. I have followed Mike Moran in the pages of Hot Rod for years, and everything he builds is over the top. One error I noted in the photos was that of the picture of his huge 4.75 piston along side a piston identified as a 4" 5.0 Ford unit. However the valve relief notches are for a OHC  4 valve engine. They come up with 5.0 with a smaller bore and longer stroke which would explain why the hemi piston looks so Huge. Pretty crazy, 12.5 compression and then throw 70psi of boost at it. I wonder if it would last for a minute on the salt with 1600 pounds of valve spring pressure. shocked
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« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2019, 10:58:52 AM »

my take after reading both articles:  both of those engs are both way, way up there trying to develop the most --one that will live and fit in tight confines as well a make big HP

The second has no limits

I think I may have picked up some ideas on what my be causing my semi-low bucks engs to fail 

I have gained insights to performance engs several times over the years by phrases used in like articles

Even with KD knowlwdge base-- the amount of time he must have spent developing this package was BUNCHE$

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« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2019, 10:44:57 PM »

Anybody here familiar with the Total Seal square-section O-rings Speed Demon will use? I'm wondering whether they are intended to use receiver grooves in the heads or not? In the only photo showing the head deck, no receiver grooves are visible, but the text mentions "grooves in block and heads".
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 10:46:33 PM by Jack Gifford » Logged

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« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2019, 11:55:54 PM »

Jack, the tech folks at Rocket Seals might be a big help.  Something I was working on had one of those O-rings and I got a replacement from them.
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