Author Topic: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.  (Read 8964 times)

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Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2016, 02:10:12 PM »
I've had a night to think this through - so permit me to backtrack.

If all you're looking for is a single plane 4 barrel manifold that can be made to fit, you could probably make this work.

BUT

This is a trap I've fallen into and a number of us have fallen into.  Honestly ask yourself, "What is my motivation to purchase this part?"

Clearly, the price is right, but realize that what you're getting is essentially a 4 barrel flange with runners that come close to your ports.  If that's all you require, and are willing to put up with the work to make it "work", then go for it.

But seriously - and like I say, I've been down this road, and I've learned the hard way - ask yourself, "Is this going to be the way to maximize my engine combination?"

Ben, you've mentioned that you're looking to get this engine to live at 8,000 RPM.  I'm going to assume that you'll put together the right parts to make the bottom end live, and that you'll be able to work the heads to deliver power at that mark, but if you're really serious about it, the manifold is likely the last thing you're going to want to concern yourself with.

While 8,000 RPM is right in the "sweet spot" of the advertised working range for this manifold, keep in mind that this claim is based on a set of heads that typically flow 400 cfm. Can you get your Polyheads to flow that?   I'm thinking that might be a stretch.

Will your necessary modifications help or hurt the flow and the velocity that this manifold claims to deliver?

Until you know what your heads flow and what kind of power band you're going to need to achieve your goal, I think the manifold should be one of the last things you purchase.

I can't begin to tell you the number of pieces I'm sitting on in my basement, that I've binned and that I've put up on eBay over the years that haven't worked.

I think an intake manifold - specifically with respect to runner length and velocity - and exhaust headers - are the final two ingredients in making a combination work.  These items, properly chosen, will allow you to fine tune the long block.

The heads and bottom end are the first priority.

Yes, $80.00 is a great price, and if all you want is a 4 barrel flange that can be fitted to your engine, then you'll be hard pressed to find a quality casting for less.  And it will likely be a fun project making it fit.  There's a lot of potential accomplishment in that.

But what this commits you to is building and engine around an $80.00 component that, even if finely modified to your configuration, is not likely to be the best solution.

For the 130-150 club - a good choice, and have fun.  But to maximize a Polyhead, I think you're putting the cart before the horse.

Chris

Cart before the horse??? no no no.  This flipping the cart upside down, setting fire to it, lashing up the horse in the midst of the flames and ridding the whole burning heap through town just to say you did it.  Then selling the horse because it got spooked by the flames.  The entire point of the car is to be a series of the best bad ideas I can come up with.

The SAM guys ported their polyheads till they leaked water and even then they only flowed like 360cfm.  So 400CFM, never going to happen, not in a million years.  I've already commit to building one of the most obsolete, over weight engines any american auto manufacturor ever produced!  One with no after market and no race pedigree of any kind.  It should be clear by now that I lack in totality the ability to make wise and well in formed decisions!  In this case I'm purposefully avoiding it.

Getting the bottom end to stay together at 8000rpm is actually the easy part.  That will be exactly the same as any small block mopar.  340 style main caps, aftermarket crank, H beam rods, nice light weight pistons and she'll sing along just fine.  Probably go to dry sump oiling and external belt driven oil pump as well.  It's just the easy way out in that case.  Again, the lack of aftermarket components for small block mopars for anything other than drag racing purposes bites.

So asking "Is this going to maximize my engine combination" isn't what i'm ever going to ask myself.  I ask myself "Is this going to end in a fatality?"  If the answer to that is no then I proceed.  I've lost everything I've ever entered in, no reason to start winning now!
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2016, 02:40:04 PM »

Cart before the horse??? no no no.  This flipping the cart upside down, setting fire to it, lashing up the horse in the midst of the flames and ridding the whole burning heap through town just to say you did it.  Then selling the horse because it got spooked by the flames.  The entire point of the car is to be a series of the best bad ideas I can come up with.

. . .

 I ask myself "Is this going to end in a fatality?"  If the answer to that is no then I proceed.  I've lost everything I've ever entered in, no reason to start winning now!

When the Sex Pistols toured the United States in 1978, they were offered dates in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angles - all cities that would have welcomed them.  Instead, they played their American tour primarily in cities that did not want them - Atlanta, Dallas, Tulsa, Baton Rouge, San Antonio . . .

When asked why, Johnny Rotten said, "There's more to achieve".

I salute you, sir, and henceforth christen you, the Punk Prince of the Poly Port!   :cheers:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2016, 04:11:48 PM »

Cart before the horse??? no no no.  This flipping the cart upside down, setting fire to it, lashing up the horse in the midst of the flames and ridding the whole burning heap through town just to say you did it.  Then selling the horse because it got spooked by the flames.  The entire point of the car is to be a series of the best bad ideas I can come up with.

. . .

 I ask myself "Is this going to end in a fatality?"  If the answer to that is no then I proceed.  I've lost everything I've ever entered in, no reason to start winning now!

When the Sex Pistols toured the United States in 1978, they were offered dates in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angles - all cities that would have welcomed them.  Instead, they played their American tour primarily in cities that did not want them - Atlanta, Dallas, Tulsa, Baton Rouge, San Antonio . . .

When asked why, Johnny Rotten said, "There's more to achieve".

I salute you, sir, and henceforth christen you, the Punk Prince of the Poly Port!   :cheers:

Man that dallas show was epic too.  Would have loved to been there for that disaster.

also... good thing i'm not just prince!
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2016, 02:35:53 AM »
Photobucket has been down for awhile, anyway... ..  .. I came home to this propped up against my door of Friday just like Summit predicted.




40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2016, 12:37:37 PM »
Photobucket has been down for awhile, anyway... ..  .. I came home to this propped up against my door of Friday just like Summit predicted.






Do I dare ask what you're going to use it for?  Or are you holding those cards a bit too close to your chest?
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2016, 11:45:21 AM »
Well yah that's true, I was thinking that if you do not use this for a Poly, I might make it so that it could be used on one for poops and giggles, but I did buy it for a totally different project, maybe I will use the same one for both.   8-)
40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2016, 11:28:07 AM »
I just feel dumb buying yet another intake when I haven't even gotten the first one on the car.  Haven't even ordered up a carburetor yet.  Still torn on running a 650 or 800 cfm... Or grinding the thing up to fit a 1000cfm thermoquad.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2016, 04:55:01 PM »
I just feel dumb buying yet another intake when I haven't even gotten the first one on the car.  Haven't even ordered up a carburetor yet.  Still torn on running a 650 or 800 cfm... Or grinding the thing up to fit a 1000cfm thermoquad.

I ran 2 carters on my factory dual quad intake, stock shortblock, not so stock cam and a little bit of grinding in the heads and stuff----Ran pretty darn good for a 318   8-)
40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2016, 10:25:53 PM »
I just feel dumb buying yet another intake when I haven't even gotten the first one on the car.  Haven't even ordered up a carburetor yet.  Still torn on running a 650 or 800 cfm... Or grinding the thing up to fit a 1000cfm thermoquad.

I ran 2 carters on my factory dual quad intake, stock shortblock, not so stock cam and a little bit of grinding in the heads and stuff----Ran pretty darn good for a 318   8-)

Well I have a feeling the factory dual quad intake was superior to this dual plane aluminum thing I have at the present.  I'll never know unless someone gives me one.  E-booger has been really pressing me to stick with carters.  Either find one of the factory 580cfm AVS carbs, or put a thermoquad on it.  I don't think 580cfm is enough at this point, so that has me leaning towards thermoquad.  850CFM would more than likely get the job done.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2016, 11:28:08 PM »

Well I have a feeling the factory dual quad intake was superior to this dual plane aluminum thing I have at the present.  Not bloody likely, it is an antiquated design from the stone age, just like these quirky old engines.  I'll never know unless someone gives me one.  E-booger has been really pressing me to stick with carters.  Either find one of the factory 580cfm AVS carbs, or put a thermoquad on it.  I don't think 580cfm is enough at this point, so that has me leaning towards thermoquad.  850CFM would more than likely get the job done.

850 cfm for a flat out , non street use, sounds good to me   :cheers:
40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2016, 07:29:03 AM »

Well I have a feeling the factory dual quad intake was superior to this dual plane aluminum thing I have at the present.  Not bloody likely, it is an antiquated design from the stone age, just like these quirky old engines.  I'll never know unless someone gives me one.  E-booger has been really pressing me to stick with carters.  Either find one of the factory 580cfm AVS carbs, or put a thermoquad on it.  I don't think 580cfm is enough at this point, so that has me leaning towards thermoquad.  850CFM would more than likely get the job done.

850 cfm for a flat out , non street use, sounds good to me   :cheers:

the 850 thermoquad would work fine on the street.  Keep in mind the thermoquad is a spread bore air valve type carb.  Chrysler used the 800cfm model on 318's in the 70's.  Hell I've seen slant 6's run them.  They also use a 3 step jet rod and use both vacuum and a cam to actuate the jet rod.  There is a vacuum actuated dash pot on the air valve as well to prevent it opening to quickly even though you have the spring set very loosely.  What does tend to happen with them is that the primaries shut down compleatly at WOT and you're running only on the secondaries.  This happens when the air valve door spring is set very loose as to drop manifold vacuum very low.  This is actually a good thing, as now you can set partial throttle A/F mixture to around 15:1, run it a bit lean at partial throttle, yet still have 13:1 to 13.5:1 at WOT.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL