Author Topic: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.  (Read 8970 times)

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Offline Polyhead

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Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« on: January 22, 2016, 11:50:02 AM »
Does anyone here happen to own one of these super motors?  I would REALLY like to know the port spacing.  I run across some unmachined edelbrock victor Jr. intake manifolds for the dodge P7.  The intake port spacing looks oh so so close to the polyspherical port spacing.  I can get these unmachined jobs for $80 each.  Would be a fantastically cheap source of a good single plane short straight runner intake for a heavily modified poly.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 01:13:38 PM »
Though someone here may well be able to answer, you might post this question on a website more populated with engine builders like Speedtalk or even Yellowbullet.
Jack Iliff
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Offline dw230

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 01:39:32 PM »
Send a question to Mike LeFevers, flowbench on the message board. Look him up in the members list.

DW
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 06:47:53 PM »
Gosh, if it's even close, for $80.00, it might be worth the experiment.  You've mentioned you're a machinist.

I spent twice that for a damaged head just to determine the best way to cut ports and valve bowls.

You might start by getting your hands on a gasket. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-NASCAR-FEL-PRO-1301-4-DODGE-R5-P7-HEADS-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-GASKETS-TRIM-FIT-/361472949071?hash=item5429777b4f:g:GyoAAOSw~gRVupwr&vxp=mtr



"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline 7800ebs

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 07:26:02 PM »
found this online....

Online Dynoroom

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 07:45:14 PM »
found this online....

Really?..... online huh?........  :-P
Michael LeFevers
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Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 10:22:06 AM »
found this online....

That's the stuff!

Ooooooh man that's so PAINFULLY close!

So the manifold ports appear to have an offset of .88 inch and the mopar polysphere is offset .5" (left bank centerlines compared to right bank centerlines)

The Polysphere has perfectly symetrical port spacing where it looks like the P7 uses a 4.02" spacing betweent the two center ports and 4.36" spacing between the center lines of the outboard ports.  The polyspheres port spacing is an even 4.5" between each port.  The offset could be overcome.  .330\2 (split the difference) means only a misalignment of .170" and that' could be ground out.  But that half an inch difference in the port spacing I think makes this project a dead end.  I don't know....  Jesus though with some cutting and welding and grinding... it could actually freaking work!  Were only talking like, moving the outboard ports 3/8ths of an inch, and moving the inboard ports 3/16th's of an inch.  That's like, painfully close to doable.

  I could possibly make adapter plates to go between the polysphere heads and the p7 intake to guide the flow from the p7's centerlines to the polyspheres port locations.  This sounds crazy but this is EXACTLY what the school of automotive machinists did for their engine masters build.  Then there is getting a polysphere to live at 8000 rpm....

Seriously, want to see one of the deepest discounts I've ever seen on summit racing?  Check this out!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-28199


Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2016, 11:21:35 AM »
Better order one quick, There is only 20 left..... :-D :-D

Thanks for the tip.... $117 shipped  to the great white north.     :cheers:
40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2016, 11:39:04 AM »
Better order one quick, There is only 20 left..... :-D :-D

Thanks for the tip.... $117 shipped  to the great white north.     :cheers:

hahahaha oh shit... I just caused someone to spend $120.... I feel like a shill, thanks for that.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2016, 11:45:17 AM »
Actually more like around $200.00  Canadian Peso's.... It's all good..... :-D :-D
40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2016, 12:15:53 PM »
Actually more like around $200.00  Canadian Peso's.... It's all good..... :-D :-D

I was just looking at exchange rates on that yesterday... holy cow.... Starting to look like it's time for a trip up to Vancouver BC again.

I don't know if I can make the thing work on my application but at that price I think I'm going to have to gamble on it.

I commute to work by bus and light rail, the drivers here in Portland are crazy crazy and I prefer not to drive on them during normal business hours.  So I just sit there on my phone and browse through summit's clearance section or sift through the junk on craig's list.  Sort it by price and just have a look at anything under $100.  You usually can't go wrong anything under $100!  If nothing else it would make a great door stop!
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline panic

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2016, 12:44:03 PM »
Those as-cast ports look small enough that you might be able to get away with just biased enlargement.
The left-right bank offset? Band saw down the middle, and joggle them.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2016, 12:50:42 PM »
Actually more like around $200.00  Canadian Peso's.... It's all good..... :-D :-D

You did notice they have DEEPLY discounted all of the victor series intakes right?  I'm sure a lot of land speed guys run those... seriously... look at this too... while you've got your wallet out...or maybe while it's under lock and key...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2842/overview/

You never see deals like this on parts for mopars... :/
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2016, 12:53:37 PM »
Those as-cast ports look small enough that you might be able to get away with just biased enlargement.
The left-right bank offset? Band saw down the middle, and joggle them.

Then you the carburator flange all misalined and the carb doesn't fit anymore. :/  .... no reason I couldn't saw the legs off though and weld them back together offset.  The intake isn't wide enough for the polysphere anyway and things have to be extended out.  So I could weld in some jogs to the ports.....but... you know... why??? I mean at that point I may as well just knock one out using sheet aluminum... or just go high and mighty style and make it out of rubber hoses.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Dodge Nascar P7 Heads.
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2016, 01:31:45 PM »
I've had a night to think this through - so permit me to backtrack.

If all you're looking for is a single plane 4 barrel manifold that can be made to fit, you could probably make this work.

BUT

This is a trap I've fallen into and a number of us have fallen into.  Honestly ask yourself, "What is my motivation to purchase this part?"

Clearly, the price is right, but realize that what you're getting is essentially a 4 barrel flange with runners that come close to your ports.  If that's all you require, and are willing to put up with the work to make it "work", then go for it.

But seriously - and like I say, I've been down this road, and I've learned the hard way - ask yourself, "Is this going to be the way to maximize my engine combination?"

Ben, you've mentioned that you're looking to get this engine to live at 8,000 RPM.  I'm going to assume that you'll put together the right parts to make the bottom end live, and that you'll be able to work the heads to deliver power at that mark, but if you're really serious about it, the manifold is likely the last thing you're going to want to concern yourself with.

While 8,000 RPM is right in the "sweet spot" of the advertised working range for this manifold, keep in mind that this claim is based on a set of heads that typically flow 400 cfm. Can you get your Polyheads to flow that?   I'm thinking that might be a stretch.

Will your necessary modifications help or hurt the flow and the velocity that this manifold claims to deliver?

Until you know what your heads flow and what kind of power band you're going to need to achieve your goal, I think the manifold should be one of the last things you purchase.

I can't begin to tell you the number of pieces I'm sitting on in my basement, that I've binned and that I've put up on eBay over the years that haven't worked.

I think an intake manifold - specifically with respect to runner length and velocity - and exhaust headers - are the final two ingredients in making a combination work.  These items, properly chosen, will allow you to fine tune the long block.

The heads and bottom end are the first priority.

Yes, $80.00 is a great price, and if all you want is a 4 barrel flange that can be fitted to your engine, then you'll be hard pressed to find a quality casting for less.  And it will likely be a fun project making it fit.  There's a lot of potential accomplishment in that.

But what this commits you to is building and engine around an $80.00 component that, even if finely modified to your configuration, is not likely to be the best solution.

For the 130-150 club - a good choice, and have fun.  But to maximize a Polyhead, I think you're putting the cart before the horse.

Chris





"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll: