Mopar Polysherical

[kiwi belly tank]

Any of the good cam companies should be able to supply you a set of cup top pushrods. Call CompCams.
  Sid.

[Polyhead]

Any of the good cam companies should be able to supply you a set of cup top pushrods. Call CompCams.
  Sid.

Everything in the valve train is easy to get save for roller rockers, although they are out there.  At the end of the day, with the access to machining equipment that I do have, I could make my own rockers.  That's just a matter of careful machining, finishing, and measuring.  Something I do every day.  For that matter I'm confident I could even make my own rocker shaft stands (after machining off the stock cast in jobs) and rocker shafts.  Right now there just isn't a need or a desire to do that with this engine.  In other words, no need to dip into my beer money just yet!

The only thing that IS different in valve train and hard to get is the cam itself.  But again, there are companies making poly grinds.  An LA cam blank works as a starting point as the spacing of the lobes, cam bearing centers, oil pump/distributor drive gear location are the same.  The only difference is the valve order.  There are several companies grinding Poly cams, and they will provide you with anything you want.  Of course there is very little in the way of dyno tested parts availabe, so, any grind you go for is an expiriment.

FYI, the pushrod set in the car right now was actually made by local engine builder friend.  He had some tubes taken from another engine that could easily be cut down and proper sized tips welded in place.  He's very confident that the pushrods would take 7000rpm even with the engines rather heavy valve train mass.  They look sweet as hell.  He made his own pushrods in the small block and big block chevies he runs, and those engines do spin at 8000rpm and have considerably more seat pressure than what I'm running.  They'll certainly hold up to the 5500 to 6000rpm that I intend to push them too.

[Stan Back]

Have fun in the 130 - 150 clubs.

After a while, you may want to change your engine and platform.  The current Bonneville record in C/BFALT is 255.  Might be hard to do that with your combo.  Not sure it would do that dropped from 10,000 feet.

[Polyhead]

Have fun in the 130 - 150 clubs.

After a while, you may want to change your engine and platform.  The current Bonneville record in C/BFALT is 255.  Might be hard to do that with your combo.  Not sure it would do that dropped from 10,000 feet.

With enough ballast!  Actually if I were to just pump the water jacket on that poly full of lead....is there a class for that?

[fastman614]

You have an interesting engine project there....some of our early engines were 318 poly engines. We never did find any real good heads for them though. The biggest difference between the LA and the A blocks though was the lack of oil porting for using hydraulic lifters. Being that I am from Canada, three of last poly engines we had were '67 blocks with hydraulic lifters. I have been told that they were the same as the 318 LA blocks. I do know that the parts physically bolt from one to the other. If you are using solid lifters anyway, why not look a bit into using a later block. You could probably even use a 360 block (and crank) - although most of them after the early '70s were iffy on boring much more than .020" oversize. It has been claimed that the blocks up to '73 vintage will take .060" oversize. I would check cylinder wall thickness first though.

For cam and valvegear, give Isky's a call and talk to Richard Iskenderian... He would steer you in the correct direction...He may even know about ftermarket rocker assemblies - shaving weight there would be a plus...Ultiimately, for as much power as possible a "one-off" cam from LSM or their competitors may be the way to go. You do need a lot of information about cylinder head flow numbers, intake, compression ratio, valve sizes etc to go that route though....

Anyway, good luck...going to be watching for updates.

[Polyhead]

You have an interesting engine project there....some of our early engines were 318 poly engines. We never did find any real good heads for them though. The biggest difference between the LA and the A blocks though was the lack of oil porting for using hydraulic lifters. Being that I am from Canada, three of last poly engines we had were '67 blocks with hydraulic lifters. I have been told that they were the same as the 318 LA blocks. I do know that the parts physically bolt from one to the other. If you are using solid lifters anyway, why not look a bit into using a later block. You could probably even use a 360 block (and crank) - although most of them after the early '70s were iffy on boring much more than .020" oversize. It has been claimed that the blocks up to '73 vintage will take .060" oversize. I would check cylinder wall thickness first though.

For cam and valvegear, give Isky's a call and talk to Richard Iskenderian... He would steer you in the correct direction...He may even know about ftermarket rocker assemblies - shaving weight there would be a plus...Ultiimately, for as much power as possible a "one-off" cam from LSM or their competitors may be the way to go. You do need a lot of information about cylinder head flow numbers, intake, compression ratio, valve sizes etc to go that route though....

Anyway, good luck...going to be watching for updates.

Because using a 360 isn't using a polysphere.  Lose the poly and the project looses it's point.  Setting the record isn't the point.  Playing with junk everyone else throws away, that's the point.  Not using the polysphere heads would be against the point as well.

I already know where to get roller rockers, but I don't really care to spend money on them at that point.  People got along just fine without them forever.

I don't need a custom one off cam, as there are off the shelf choices that'll get the job done for now.  I stress for now.  Maybe in 4 or 5 years time I push it out a bit farther.  I spend as much on coffee in a year as a cam is going to cost... Probably even more on pipe tobacco.

If they had a class for un-areodynamic cars with overweight V8 engines I would enter it (C/CSH Classic Shit Heap), but they don't. so i'm not building the car around the class so much as building the car the way I want it and compromising it to make it fall into a slot somewhere in there to get it timed.  Calling it a combination is an insult to people that have actually planned things out.  This thing is a garbage scowl on wheels that (hopefully) passes tech.

I do have the attention of Chrysler Power magazine at the moment.  So with any luck I can make the most of that.  (till they find out I have a Mopar Action subscription)

[RichFox]

I thought Buddy Walker and Jeff Brock were somewhat out there. But I answered any questions they asked me and look how their cars turned out. Hope Jeff is doing well. It would be good to see a Poly running strongly on the salt. I like to see engines that are out of the norm. Long way from the 130 club to the long course. But more power to you. To bad you didn't want to run a '52 Lincoln. Then I could really get into it.

[Polyhead]

I thought Buddy Walker and Jeff Brock were somewhat out there. But I answered any questions they asked me and look how their cars turned out. Hope Jeff is doing well. It would be good to see a Poly running strongly on the salt. I like to see engines that are out of the norm. Long way from the 130 club to the long course. But more power to you. To bad you didn't want to run a '52 Lincoln. Then I could really get into it.

Hard to get one of those cheap.  Actually getting forward look era mopars cheap isn't easy now.  Kind of a shame but suddenly, mopars are having a big surge in popularity.  Has driven the costs through the roof.  '52 lincoln is a cool car though.  That said if I did something that wasn't a chrysler product It would be a stude'.

[Milwaukee Midget]

I think the Poly was underdeveloped for high performance applications.

It comes with good sized valves and a usable combustion chamber, good potential for better breathing with a canted intake valve and a fairly direct intake port.

This could well be a tree worth barking up.

In other words, no need to dip into my beer money just yet!

As long as there's food in the fridge, you're under budget. 

[Polyhead]

I think the Poly was underdeveloped for high performance applications.

It comes with good sized valves and a usable combustion chamber, good potential for better breathing with a canted intake valve and a fairly direct intake port.

This could well be a tree worth barking up.

In other words, no need to dip into my beer money just yet!

As long as there's food in the fridge, you're under budget. 

Why do you need a fridge for peanut butter and jelly?

[Milwaukee Midget]

Why do you need a fridge for peanut butter and jelly?

 

Good point.

I think I just figured out how I'm going to be able to afford my impending fuel injection . . . 

[Polyhead]

Why do you need a fridge for peanut butter and jelly?

 

Good point.

I think I just figured out how I'm going to be able to afford my impending fuel injection . . . 

My ultimate goal is to go injected as well, but, not allowed in CPRO so that'll be a move in class, far into the future of course.  I REALLY want to put a classic mechanical hilbourn setup on it just because...I've played with EFI on other projects, and it's fun, but I've yet to get to play with a hilbourn mechanical setup.  It's a bucket list item.  I want velocity stacks out of the hood and a tank full of methanol!  It looks cool and smells good and those are the only reasons.

 I need to get into touch with that whole, black market human organ trade.  I only need one kidney, don't need my testicles at all.  I'm pretty sure I could get down the course with only one eye as well.  Only need my right foot too so that's the left leg done away with.  Wait, are hand controls legal?  If I get both legs off getting in and out of the car would probably actually be easier!

You're comment on the heads.  I think it's a good design but I think the SAM engine at the engine masters shootout really took the heads as far as they can go.  They ported them to the point they leaked water and then ceramic coated them to fix the leaks!  That's as far as it's gonna go there!  It's a good design but a design that, unusually for chrysler, left little room for porting.  I'll be competing in classes where people can go out and buy off the shelf aluminum, billet, cnc ported, wis bang heads.  No stock cast iron head is going to keep up with that.  The flow numbers sam got are in the range modern sorta ok aftermarket aluminium heads. But again, it leaked, so for something that I would run out on the salt would be reduced in flow as I just couldn't grind the port walls out that thin and expect it to survive.

Intake design and header design are going to be crytical, and the headers design is already looking like it's going to have to be a compromise because there just isn't much in the way of room for headers under the hood.  I can't find a way to do it at all in fact without either ditching the torsion bars or cutting holes in the inner fenders.  This later option then means the only tires that'll fit and that I can ensure won't end up with a tire hitting them are going to be front runners.

[RichFox]

You might want to go back and reread the rule book on Hilborn type fuel injection. No restriction there. I have made several Hilborn type of manifolds using other more common injectors or throttle bodies from newer EFI cars and bikes. Being a machinist you would have no difficulty doing the same. As far as all the rest of it, pumps, hoses and such I used Hilborn. Did OK for me.

[wobblywalrus]

Ben, the logical way to go fast is to open up the Dart catalog or similar and start buying race ready parts.  This is the least cost and quickest way to go fast.  Strangely, most folks do not do that.  This forum is a good example.  There are people with semi home made jet engines, MG motors, Clevelands, Honda postie bikes, and all sorts of other crazy stuff and they are having lots of fun.  That polysphere project fits right in with this group.

[Polyhead]

You might want to go back and reread the rule book on Hilborn type fuel injection. No restriction there. I have made several Hilborn type of manifolds using other more common injectors or throttle bodies from newer EFI cars and bikes. Being a machinist you would have no difficulty doing the same. As far as all the rest of it, pumps, hoses and such I used Hilborn. Did OK for me.

Hmm, yeah I guess it does specifically say non oem ELECTRONIC fuel injection.  Again, bucket list item.  I could probably work together something based on their single throat setups fairly easily.  I'm not much of a welder, that's the problem.  I need to start praticing welding sheet aluminum.  Just knock something out from aluminum sheet.

Crazy enough, there were some OEM electronic fuel injection systems from chrysler in 1958!  They used the Bendix electrojet system.  Aparently it worked extremely well, but, scared people.
http://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/electrojector.html

So technically, if I used the B based 361 from that era, with that manifold, I could run EFI C/CPRO, in a 1958 desoto.... anyone want to loan me say, 200,000 grand so i can cut up a super rare desoto?