G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas

[ggl205]

ABS sheets in place. Almost ready to lay up fiberglass.

John

[ggl205]

Terry Mourer just finished my lakester front wheels. Beautiful works of art. They are made to fit 18X4.4X10 aircraft tires and are two piece with a large "O" ring in the middle, machined to fit spindle mount axles and a machined moon disc covering everything. It goes without saying, Terry will be making my rear wheels too.

John

[Tman]

Wow! Sexy wheels. More pics plz

[Stainless1]

I'm coming for a visit in a week...
Love the body, the wheels....
When's that wiring guy showing up 
Dyno ready when you are
 

[ggl205]

I'm coming for a visit in a week...
Love the body, the wheels....
When's that wiring guy showing up  
Dyno ready when you are
 

Stainless, wheels are still in Indiana but I will be driving there to pick them up on the 24th of this month. This gives opportunity to drop off rear hubs so Terry can match them up and make sure everything fits.

Dave will come as soon as I can get the car far enough along to make an accurate wiring diagram. I still have a ways to go not withstanding completion of the body.

As soon as I get the wheels back to Wichita, I will post more detailed photos.

Anyone requiring custom made aluminum LSR wheels, Terry is your guy, period. Super easy to work with and only deals in quality, precision and perfection.

John

[Speed Limit 1000]

Looking good. Hope to see it when I come to work on the Bockscar.

[ggl205]

Any time, John.

[SPARKY]

TM  "Super easy to work with----"

Yeah, I suspect he's like a lot of us, if he gets PO, first can't remember why,  then he forgets that he was---next step "What's POed   ----maybe that why they call them the "Golden Years"---- but he sure knows how to do sexy wheels!!!!!!!

[Rex Schimmer]

John,
Really like the looks of your body plug, great thinking on using the ABS sheets, it is really going to look good. Your front wheels are very neat but why so wide? Many cars (think Sparky) are going with the narrow Goodyear 22.5x17 top fuel fronts that are 300 mph approved by SCTA. Over 80% of the drag on a lakester are the wheels and tires so going with the narrowest makes sense. The top fuel tires are only 3.2 inches in section and if you trim the shoulders a little they are actually pretty aero. Do the tires you are using have a great cross section shape which can certainly reduce the Cd and make up for the extra width. With so much of the drag of a lakester being caused by the tires it is extra important to make them as aero as possible.

Another note John is Simon McBeath, who does the aero analysis for Racecar Engineering magazine, has just completed a three issue wind tunnel testing of a 1992 Swift SC92F formula Ford car that he uses for hill climbing. ( As you know a formula Ford is just a lakester that can go around corners!)The main target of the test was drag reduction which he was able to reduce by about 13% in the wind tunnel. One point that I found really interesting was that the final Cd (area) was .433 and this was a car with fat, wide tires, without any wheel covers and also the uprights and brakes hanging out in the wind. From his testing I would think that with proper attention to the wheels and tires and some detailed attention to getting the axles and suspension parts covered with aero appendages a lakester could easily have a Cd in the .25 to .3 area which with a frontal area of say 7 square feet would require about 115 hp for 200 mph for a Cd of .3 and 96 hp for a Cd of .25. As these are the numbers I happen to be targeting for the Schimmer and Son lakester, hopefully we may able to find out next August!

Rex

[ggl205]

Rex:

I think you have been reading my pre build notes (lol). We both have heavy road racing backgrounds so much of what I base my car design around, comes from Formula cars.

Originally, I had planned to use those dragster skinnies just like I did on my first car. I switched to the 18X4.4X10 aircraft tire after a short discussion with Stainless. Rob has far more experience with tire and wheel combinations on Bockscar so when he compared the two tire/wheel combinations, I listened. These 18" aircraft tire's need to be shaved so I believe there will be an aero improvement over stock. I have already begun my whining campaign to enlist help from Stainless to shave two tires. It is kind of an ugly, time consuming mess so I may have to ratchet up my whining intensity.

I am very interested in the McBeath three part study completed on a 1992 Swift FF. From what I remember of my FF and FC days, a good Cd for that vintage car was in the .40-.45 range so it would be hard to make too much improvement. As you may already know, I began my Lakester project with a 1984 Reynard FC chassis. Rear rocker suspension is stock and quite aero. When I talk with Maurer this month, we will be discussing how to hide as much of the rear uprights as possible. The upper rocker has a rounded leading edge but does not taper. Half shafts will be the big issue from an aero standpoint. When first putting pen to paper, I was assuming a .40 Cd, 7.2 sq. ft. frontal area. As it turned out, I will have a 7.4 sq. ft. FA, should stay under 2000 pounds and hope my Cd is .40 or better. Woody may be doing some initial CFD work for me to establish a few baselines. From there, decisions can be made as to what changes will yield best bang for the buck.

Your car will see the salt before I do. I will be trying hard to make the September USFRA meet.

John

[ggl205]

Rex:

From what Woody has sent me as example of his analysis capabilities, he used a basic drop tank lakester. That car developed a .25 Cd so I think your car should be very close. The only thing that nags at me is why drop tank lakesters don't go faster than they do? They have the horsepower but as a class of vehicle design, don't seem to make speed that non drop tanks do. Curious.

John

[Rex Schimmer]

John,
Rex's theory on why "tank" lakesters aren't as fast as the appear they should be: 1) I feel that most of them are ran way to low to the ground. If the belly of the tank is very close to the ground and I have seen many that are at the 1 inch or lower area, then the air that is trying to stay attached and go under the  tank becomes very high in velocity and is turbulent and becomes unattached when its boundary layer collides with the non-moving ground plane which then makes pretty much the lower rear half of the body look like a bluff body to the air, i.e. high pressure drag. If the tank happens to be a P-38 300 gallon tank or replica there of then just because of the large diameter it is very difficult to get any kind of major ground clearance. 2)Many (most) of the tank lakesters are really trying to look like the original tanks which means exposed radius rods and mounts, exposed axles, springs and shocks, exposed steering rods and little or no effort to add any type of "aero patch" that would lower the paradisaical drag of these elements. 3) Many of these cars are sit up style which have various types of roll cage exposed to the air stream which is a lot of extra drag. McBeath saw a reduction of 2.4 % drag using a simple fairing made from duct tape and foam.

John, I did not know that the tire you are using is the same as the ones that Stainless is using on the Boxcar, that means the 18 on the size call out is the overall diameter and the 4.4 is the width which means that the frontal area is only about 10% greater than the new Goodyear top fuel front but with your trick wheels it should really be effective.
Rex

[ggl205]

Rex:

I read all three 1992 Swift aero articles by Mc Beath and found them interesting and in concert with other studies done on similar cars. Of particular interest were fairings fore and aft of suspension attachment points. Before reading the article, I was wondering how I might deal with this for my rear suspension. Simon gave me the answer. Not a big change in drag but big and simple enough to incorporate on my car. Another area of interest was air flow impingement from front wheel to rear. Stainless showed me Bockscar moon discs and asked what I saw. Not being the brightest bulb in the room, I gave no answer. He showed me where salt from front wheel wakes were hitting the moon discs at rear. Never gave this much thought until Mc Beath dealt with it. Up to now, I was always trying to deal with tire wakes impinging upon the body. Really good stuff, Rex and thank you for pointing this out.

Oh, BTW, my front tires are identical to those on Bockscar.

John

[ggl205]

TM  "Super easy to work with----"

 but he sure knows how to do sexy wheels!!!!!!!

That is a fact, Sparky.

[Milwaukee Midget]

TM  "Super easy to work with----"

 but he sure knows how to do sexy wheels!!!!!!!

That is a fact, Sparky.

I saw Sparky's wheels when I was at Podunk's shop a few years back - I think even before Sparky saw them.  When the chips were done flying, the end results were masterpieces.

Of course, SOME of those chips I found in an engine block he left too close to the lathe - but even Rembrandt spilled a little paint from time to time . . .