Author Topic: Rear Partition - Altered  (Read 9602 times)

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Offline MrEracer

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Rear Partition - Altered
« on: November 13, 2015, 10:27:49 AM »
  I am making good progress on my 1980 Sunbird Altered car.  I have a rear mounted fuel tank that is above the floor pan.  I understand that I need to isolate this from the drivers compartment.  My question is what does it take to satisfy the inspectors.  I do not see anything in the rules except that it needs to be isolated.  I want to have removable panels for access.  Can I use aluminum sheet or does it need to be steel.  How thick does it need to be and does it need to be sealed water tight around the edges like the firewall? 
  I also have a fiberglass transmission tunnel.  Will this pass inspection or does it need to be aluminum or steel?
Thanks
Shirl Dickey
Shirl Dickey
Veteran, U.S. Army Airborne, '61-'64
Retired Aerospace Engineer, BSME, UofU, 1970
Circle boat racer, '68-'82 and '10 to present (SK and Comp Jet)
Dirt Bike racer, '66-'84 (MotoX and Desert, big bore)
Aircraft racer, '83-'05 (Varieze and E-Racer)
Road race driver/instructor, '02-'12 (C5 Corvette, 600 hp)
Future LSR racer ('80 Sunbird, potential Altered Class)

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 10:43:16 AM »
Build it to firewall Specs...

Remember... you are protecting you... not just building to the rules
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 10:23:55 PM »
I personally don't see a problem with a fiberglass tunnel but it would need to incorporate the circular driveshaft slings meeting the rules. I can't remember if u need them on both ends but I would definatly have them. If when the car is complete and you cannot see them, take photos and keep them with your log book for inspectors. Why not line or cover the fiberglass tunnel with aluminum?

As for the rear panel; making it meet the front firewall is definately correct. Your are allowed aluminum but it must meet the thickness specified. My firewall has panels secured with duez fasteners. Good luck...
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline MrEracer

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 11:41:19 PM »
I am building a 3 piece rear partition made from .060 sheet steel which matches the front firewall.  The thing I am having difficulty with is how to seal the edges up the sides and over the inside of the top.  I have a gap of .25 to .50 around the edges.  In the past I have slit rubber hose long ways and slid it over the outer edges of a panel.  This would give me a good seal, but I doubt it would meet fire requirements.  I could fill the gaps with a fire resistant calk, but it would not be pretty ('pretty' does not add speed)...  Any suggestions would be appreciated.   

As to the tunnel, I do have front and rear spec. drive shaft hoops tied into the frame with cross members.  I also have a spec. clutch/flywheel cover.  I could add a metal outer cover over the fiberglass, but with what purpose?  As long as it is sealed from dust, smoke, etc. and critical components guarded I do not see where a metal cover does anything more than what I have now (fiberglass).  It might add some fire protection, as fiberglass will burn, but it does not burn aggressively. 

Shirl Dickey
Shirl Dickey
Veteran, U.S. Army Airborne, '61-'64
Retired Aerospace Engineer, BSME, UofU, 1970
Circle boat racer, '68-'82 and '10 to present (SK and Comp Jet)
Dirt Bike racer, '66-'84 (MotoX and Desert, big bore)
Aircraft racer, '83-'05 (Varieze and E-Racer)
Road race driver/instructor, '02-'12 (C5 Corvette, 600 hp)
Future LSR racer ('80 Sunbird, potential Altered Class)

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2015, 11:07:29 AM »
Shirl,
The back of my cage area has a bulkhead panel much like you referring to.  I used fire caulk but I have to check it for cracks and gaps after each meet for the caul shrinks and splits with age and movement---you are right--it is not pretty but it passes the use requirements, seals and passes tech inspection.  Be,  sure to put low pressure drains for fuel in case you have a leak, to stop it from pooling,  a high speed chute deployment can cause a hard pressure surge at the bulk head---work hard to keep it out from under the barrier.  YMMV
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline bearingburner

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2015, 05:18:50 PM »
On our rear engine lakester we framed around the outside of the cage with 2 X3/16 flat stock and installed 1/4 nutcerts every 2"to secure the 1/8" aluminum fire wall. Installed a bead of firecaulk around the firewall before securing with 1/4" button head screws.

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2015, 02:33:41 PM »
I did a car several years ago (Honda 600 of all things) for a friend that had the fuel cell mounted on the floor at the rear of the car. I built a sealed steel container that sealed the fuel cell from the drivers compartment. SCTA was a little resistant at first but after looking it over they approved it because it did exactly what the rule required. It isolated the fuel cell from the drivers compartment. I have attached a pic, the fuel tank enclosure is the box in the rear the other box is the battery enclosure.

Rex
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Offline MrEracer

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2015, 08:31:20 PM »
Rex,
  That is almost exactly what I have in my car now.  It has a fuel cell made by a fuel cell manufacturer (can't remember where I bought it, maybe Summit).  It has a full steel container on the outside and the plastic/rubber bladder inside filled with fuel safe foam.  It is large at 25 gal as I built it to run the Silver State open road race and they let me run it there, but that was 20 years ago.  Since I plan to run a fuel class (E85) I need more volume anyway.  Maybe I should petition the rules committee to see if they would approve it without the partition as they did in your case. 
  Mine has the fuel filler cap on the top of the steel enclosure with the vent/check valve and supply line there as well.  I may have a problem with a return line since I will be running EFI.  The fuel cap is large and I may be able to put a return fitting there.  I'm not sure how I would penetrate and seal the bladder safely through the steel top.
SD
Shirl Dickey
Veteran, U.S. Army Airborne, '61-'64
Retired Aerospace Engineer, BSME, UofU, 1970
Circle boat racer, '68-'82 and '10 to present (SK and Comp Jet)
Dirt Bike racer, '66-'84 (MotoX and Desert, big bore)
Aircraft racer, '83-'05 (Varieze and E-Racer)
Road race driver/instructor, '02-'12 (C5 Corvette, 600 hp)
Future LSR racer ('80 Sunbird, potential Altered Class)

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 11:53:45 AM »
You're gonna need more that 25 gallons to run 5 miles?  Must be a VERY serious motor.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 12:24:49 PM »
SB  re-read why the 25 gallon tank
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline redhotracing

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 01:05:31 PM »
MrEracer-

Can you just mount a fuel cell in the OEM tank position (guessing under the rear package tray?) instead of in the hatch?

Vents, fuel lines, etc. would remain out of the driver's compartment, with only the question of filling it with E85 remaining.

It would also keep weight over the rear instead of behind the axle (think pendulum effect if things get squirrely on the salt).

Luke- Winston Salem, NC
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Ohio 2 Club- 203.712 (2013)

Offline MrEracer

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 01:03:01 AM »
Well, this car has some pretty unique features that I designed into for the SSC.  Some I am changing now and some I may change in the future to improve its performance as a LSR car.  I have updated the roll cage with a funny car structure around the driver.  Some things I would rather not change as I want to get on the track with only the changes required for rules and safety and other things can be changed when I want more speed.

The Sunbird body is mounted over a modified Toyota pick up frame (hence Modified Class) and it has a rear mounted radiator and ducting that is low and behind the rear axle approximately where the original fuel tank was located.  The radiator in this location dictated that the fuel tank be mounted above it and that is why it is in the proximity of the drivers compartment.

I have considered several options with this car, one being to install a 5 gallon fuel tank ahead of the engine.  With the engine moved back some and the radiator in the rear I have lots of room up there.  This isolates all the fuel ahead of the firewall and is an attractive alternative to the current set up.  It's also more work and expense than just using what I have now.  I have the partition partly made now and I think I'll just finish it and not introduce controversy as a new car and driver.  Later I can replace the radiator with an ice box and I can put the fuel tank up front.  I just want to get on the dirt/salt and do some license passes and then see what the car can do.

The car was originally designed to run 93 miles at maximum effort and I needed enough fuel to do that.

MrE
Shirl Dickey
Veteran, U.S. Army Airborne, '61-'64
Retired Aerospace Engineer, BSME, UofU, 1970
Circle boat racer, '68-'82 and '10 to present (SK and Comp Jet)
Dirt Bike racer, '66-'84 (MotoX and Desert, big bore)
Aircraft racer, '83-'05 (Varieze and E-Racer)
Road race driver/instructor, '02-'12 (C5 Corvette, 600 hp)
Future LSR racer ('80 Sunbird, potential Altered Class)

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2015, 10:27:15 AM »
Shirl, your tank up front is actually a great idea... The 25 gal tank in the back can  be swapped for water or just filled with water for  ballast.  It might surprise you how easy that can be.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Sumner

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2015, 11:25:23 AM »
Shirl, your tank up front is actually a great idea.....

+1  :cheers: :cheers:,

Sumner

Offline manta22

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Re: Rear Partition - Altered
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2015, 11:37:13 AM »
MrE;

One disadvantage I can think of having the fuel tank up front is that in a fire your fuel tank is a torch with the flames going back toward you. Otherwise it sounds like a good idea.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ