Reducing motorcycle displacement classes

[sabat]

Has anyone ever suggested moving some smaller displacement classes to a "vintage" subset? I think most folks would be happy with fewer displacement breaks, and it would simplify things. For example, the current rules provide classes for both 350cc and 400cc bikes. (Edit - this is ECTA only, not SCTA) This seems like splitting hairs. Maybe I'm too young to remember the differences between production 350s and 400s, but in the 21st century these distinctions are pretty meaningless.

How about;
50cc
125cc
250cc
500cc
650cc
750cc
1000cc
1350cc
1650cc
2000cc
3000cc
3000+ (Altered only)

and the other displacements be converted to "vintage only" classes.  Anyone think this is viable? Do I have a second to submit a rule change request?

humbly,
Dean

[saltwheels262]

It might make things easier. I'll second it.

Franey

[salt27]

Dean, which organization(s) are you proposing this for?

  Don

[sabat]

SCTA, and thus DLRA, ECTA, LTA. I know better than to futz with AMA / FIM.

[sabat]

Thanks Franey.

[salt27]

Has anyone ever suggested moving some smaller displacement classes to a "vintage" subset? I think most folks would be happy with fewer displacement breaks, and it would simplify things. For example, the current rules provide classes for both 350cc and 400cc bikes. This seems like splitting hairs. Maybe I'm too young to remember the differences between production 350s and 400s, but in the 21st century these distinctions are pretty meaningless.

and the other displacements be converted to "vintage only" classes.  Anyone think this is viable? Do I have a second to submit a rule change request?

humbly,
Dean

How would the 1956 and newer 100cc, 175cc and 350cc bikes be classified?

I did not find a 400cc class in the SCTA rules, did I miss something?

I'm not picking at you Dean, I just want to see how this would work.

  Thanks, Don

[RansomT]

If you are looking at current cc bikes to get somewhat of a gauge for classes.

The 125cc class needs to 150cc... Not many true 125cc are available, they are either 127cc or 150cc.

While you can find some 250cc bikes, most are moving toward 300cc.  I think there has been a change to the over seas graduate licenses that has cause some of these changes.

[sabat]

Has anyone ever suggested moving some smaller displacement classes to a "vintage" subset? I think most folks would be happy with fewer displacement breaks, and it would simplify things. For example, the current rules provide classes for both 350cc and 400cc bikes. This seems like splitting hairs. Maybe I'm too young to remember the differences between production 350s and 400s, but in the 21st century these distinctions are pretty meaningless.

and the other displacements be converted to "vintage only" classes.  Anyone think this is viable? Do I have a second to submit a rule change request?

humbly,
Dean

How would the 1956 and newer 100cc, 175cc and 350cc bikes be classified?

I did not find a 400cc class in the SCTA rules, did I miss something?

I'm not picking at you Dean, I just want to see how this would work.

  Thanks, Don

Sorry Don. I was looking at the ECTA 400cc records, not sure why those exist.

About the bikes without a class, I'd say they should expand or contract displacement to fit a class.

[sabat]

If you are looking at current cc bikes to get somewhat of a gauge for classes.

The 125cc class needs to 150cc... Not many true 125cc are available, they are either 127cc or 150cc.

While you can find some 250cc bikes, most are moving toward 300cc.  I think there has been a change to the over seas graduate licenses that has cause some of these changes.

For sure there will need to be consideration of modern displacement trends. When I think of small engine bikes, I think of 50s, 125s, 250s, 500s, etc. Some sort of probability density of engine displacements over the last 25 years would be worthwhile.

[salt27]

Sorry Don. I was looking at the ECTA 400cc records, not sure why those exist.

About the bikes without a class, I'd say they should expand or contract displacement to fit a class.

No worries Dean.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

  Don

[SaltPeter]

Dean, I can't understand in what way changing the engine displacement range is "easier"?

Easier in what way and for who?

There is a significant performance differences between the current 50cc, 100cc, 125cc, 175, 250, 350 and 500cc Engines

This is about approx 30% increase between each capacity from 125cc to 500cc...

as in 125>175 = + 28.6%... 175>250 = + 30% etc

After that it drops to 20-25% except 650>750 which is only + 15% ....

The Rules should be about Performance differences ...

and I think the current Displacement breakdowns in the smaller Classes do that about right ....

Pete 

[sabat]

I think I was a bit blown away by the presence of both 350cc and 400cc classes in the ECTA, and then I started thinking about tightening the classes. But there is no 400cc in SCTA, as Don pointed out above.

I think the smaller displacement classes are great, I love the fact that ingenious people can go really fast with very little displacement. Jack Costella, Buddfab, even the Speed Demon. But the displacement breaks are not set in stone - the SCTA recognizes trends in engine size driven by the major manufacturers, and perhaps the breakdown of displacements should be revised from time to time (20 years?) to reflect what's available.

Also, some folks moan that there's too many classes.  Maybe we would concentrate the competition by reducing the number of dsiplacement breaks. Thus folks that may have basically their own class might get forced to compete against someone. I am NOT picking on anyone in particular, I'm thinking is broad terms, into the future.

So I could create a cluster analysis of motorcycle displacements produced over the last 10 years, and see what the common engine sizes are. Then look back at the recordbook and see if there are other common engine sizes that are highly competitive, but not represented by modern sizes, so as not to exclude a popular LSR engine. Then see if there are classes that might be converted to "vintage only" status. I do NOT want to delete anything or anyone from the books, no way no way.

Dean

[ThumbBiker]

  The 125cc and 175cc four stroke classes have been a lot of fun for FYIE RAC-ZING!  We are currently finishing up a 125cc and a 175cc bike ( Motobi and Benelli/Motobi ).  The costs are lower than the larger classes and the speeds are in a comfortable range for my granddaughter to race the bike.  We have four bikes and six engines that we can mix and match for various classes.  We spent time on the overall team race strategy and finding the bikes to fit that strategy. The bikes we use are close to being scrapped out and we give them life as a race bike - we don't use good restoration candidates.

  Lots of comments on there being too many classes and runs take too long for small displacements but I feel this is an excellent path for new people and/or young people ( or old retired folks like me! ) to get into the sport.  And, if you look around at the age of most of the participants, we should support anything that helps bring new people into the sport. So, my input would be to also keep in mind the new person that is considering joining the land speed racing sport when thinking of changes.

[sabat]

50cc and 125cc gives lots of opportunity for new racers, I have a beater MB5 sitting storage waiting for my 4 year old to start asking about...

To be clear, I won't suggest deleting any classes - just reclassifying a few smaller displacements as vintage, or even "classic" only. If your 175cc is not vintage or classic, it would be converted to 125cc or 250cc.

[salt27]

To be clear, I won't suggest deleting any classes - just reclassifying a few smaller displacements as vintage, or even "classic" only. If your 175cc is not vintage or classic, it would be converted to 125cc or 250cc.

I could not find a "classic" category in the motorcycle section but I'm using a 2014 SCTA rule book, is this something new or maybe ECTA?

  Don