how good/bad is "event gas"?

[Gary Perkinson]

I know the impound guy and he tells me that you should not waste your time thinking about gas options.

Run what you want, enter fuel class and have fun. Someday you will proceed up the ladder to record speeds, close to 250 in the G/BAlt classes) and then you can refine your race program.

Bon Chance,
DW

Thanks, Dan...makes perfect sense and will probably end up being what I do...

Gary

[sofadriver]

.
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182132-1.html

Note in this link that there are safe rich mixtures and safe lean mixtures for detonation and at high power levels an island forms in between them which is a no go zone due to detonation risk. In that zone if you are in the safe lean mixture range and try to cool things down by enriching the mixture slightly, you could suddenly find yourself in serious risk of detonation, which is counter intuitive until you understand that chart near the bottom of the article.

Happy hunting and good luck with your project

One thing he talks about to prevent detonation is higher octane gas.  How high is too high?  How do you tell when it's too high?  It seems like you could go so high you'd have a really tough time starting the engine but what other symptoms would you see?

[mergatroyd]

.
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182132-1.html

Note in this link that there are safe rich mixtures and safe lean mixtures for detonation and at high power levels an island forms in between them which is a no go zone due to detonation risk. In that zone if you are in the safe lean mixture range and try to cool things down by enriching the mixture slightly, you could suddenly find yourself in serious risk of detonation, which is counter intuitive until you understand that chart near the bottom of the article.

Happy hunting and good luck with your project

One thing he talks about to prevent detonation is higher octane gas.  How high is too high?  How do you tell when it's too high?  It seems like you could go so high you'd have a really tough time starting the engine but what other symptoms would you see?

The idea as I understand it is if you are running something ascribed to the category of flammable liquids known colloquially as "gasoline," run the lowest octane you can get away with.  Lower octane usually has more BTUs to make power.

When changing to a different class of flammable liquids, different rules apply.

[tauruck]

No Hi jack intended. I had the pleasure of running a guy in karting. He's pretty good seeing as he's been SA Superkart champ for about 10 years.
In 125 we never had a great budget so I fooled around with fuel blends.

We won but then the guys behind him started bitching about weird smells and itchy eyes.
The governing body decided event fuel was the way to go but we could add our own 2 stroke oil.
One day while watching a practice I was in earshot of the COC and he was telling his friend that the threatened fuel sample test was BS because
the cost of one test was $3500. To test a 45 kart field would be unaffordable, The sample gas was later used in the lawn mowers at the track.

I upped the ante.  

[mergatroyd]

That's why in many grassroots-style racing in the US there are "claimer" engines and protest rules.  If you think someone is cheating, you can protest... if you are right, they pay for the inspection and the fine.  If you are wrong, you pay for the inspection.

In a claimer engine class, you can pay a relatively nominal fee and buy an engine from say, one of the top five finishers.

Not that claimer engine rules really keep anyone honest... just honester.  The story goes that at a small dirt oval with claimer rules, there was a guy with a big budget who won quite often.  The noise against him grew enough that someone eventually claimed his engine at one of the races he didn't quite win... it was full of junkyard parts....  You pays your money and takes your chances.

[rouse]

This thread was about event gas not claimer motors.

I don't know Rick Gold form Adam, but I know we had no problems at all running the event gas he supplies out at Bonneville.

As a matter of fact I have had the same gas in my race bike for 6 years and it is still as good as new.

Whatever he is doing with the gas  it must be right, tune your race vehicle right and go for it. If you have a problem, it probably not because of the gas.

Rouse

[hotrod]

How do you tell when it's too high? 

Learn to read your plugs, they will show signs of detonation (what you use high octane to avoid) before you kill the engine.
[if you are paying attention and tuning in small enough steps]

Light detonation will blow microscopic bits of aluminum off the top of the piston crowns or the heads. That aluminum then ends up getting deposited on the plugs.
By casual examination it looks like a whitish dust on the  nose of the plug and the ground electrode. If you look at it under a good magnifying glass (about 10x) you will see very tiny silver balls of aluminum all over the end of the plugs. There are also some other signs but it takes some experience to learn what the plugs are telling you.

Plug reading is one of those "mystic arts" that takes a while to learn but is not all that hard if you take the time to learn what your engine is telling you.

High octane should have nothing at all to do with hard starting, that is a mixture and timing issue not octane.

[Buickguy3]

   We usually take a plug with us when we go to the fuel trailer and Ric has never steered us wrong. He will suggest fuel changes as well as timing and boost changes. He also found some plugs for us that had been discontinued years ago but he had some. Believe me it's more than just a fuel trailer.
   Doug 

[sofadriver]

   We usually take a plug with us when we go to the fuel trailer and Ric has never steered us wrong. He will suggest fuel changes as well as timing and boost changes. He also found some plugs for us that had been discontinued years ago but he had some. Believe me it's more than just a fuel trailer.
   Doug 

Glad I started this thread because it's been very informative.

OK, so here's the plan.

Test on gas comparable to ERC.
Buy ERC gas on the salt (don't have to carry it with me and free good advice - I like it)
Run fuel class to avoid the gas class hassle.
Go fast.

I like having a plan.

[Peter Jack]

If you're going to run the ERC gas, then you may as well run in gas class, especially if you find you're running in the area of a record. I hope you make that discovery.

Pete

[Stan Back]

Good advise.

And make sure you seal your empty tank when filling.

[Milwaukee Midget]

If you're going to run the ERC gas, then you may as well run in gas class, especially if you find you're running in the area of a record. I hope you make that discovery.

Pete

I agree with PJ - as usual.

I really don't think it's a hassle, if you do your homework ahead of time. 

And if it makes sense, run both classes.  The only downside is you may have to construct a larger trophy case. 

[thundersalt]

Best thing I ever did was paying for dyno time with ERC fuel that we run at B'ville. That way we're tuned and ready, maybe jetting up a little, when we get there. We have dyno'd with both Sunoco and ERC and seen a big difference in tune.